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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think the police were out of order?

553 replies

Cailleachian · 29/08/2019 00:13

DS1 (18) has chronic insomnia. A about 6 month back, he started taking nightwalks as a way of wearing himself out and clearing his mind. Sometimes DS2 (17) keeps him company, Tonight, they went out for a walk about 11pm and about 1/2hour later DS2 came bolting in the door, shouting "Mum, Mum, its the police". My first thought was that one of them had got in a fight or been hurt.

I answered the door and a male and female police officer are standing there with DS1. The man asks to come in, telling me that he is here to charge DS2 with breach of the peace.

It transpires that they were stopped by the woman, who was questioning them about why they were walking about and whether they were from a "unit"(?!) when the man came over and started shouting at them and demanding to search them. DS1 was searched, but when DS2 was searched apparently he kept backing away, at which point the man grabbed his hands and pinned him against a wall. DS2 then swore at him repeatedly. Thoughout being told this DS2 is very upset, keeps interrupting the man over minutiae (and at times I felt like was trying to sort out DS1 and DS2's squabbles), but ultimately both of them agree that this is what happened.

In the end he didnt charge him, but to be honest, I'm a bit outraged that he even considered it. I dont know why my sons were stopped (acting suspiciously, out late at night while under 18, area where breakins happen were all reasons I was given). I dont know why he wasnt able to de-escalate a stop and search without physical aggression. And above all I dont understand why he thought it was a child protection issue, given that the only person that assaulted him in the street at night was the policeman himself.

Go-on Mumsnet, give me your best pearl clutching.

OP posts:
SchadenfreudePersonified · 29/08/2019 21:01

"I dont think that police officers should be doing routine searches of civilians at all". Should they never search anybody? Even the most hardened criminal is a 'civilian'

As above.

The Criminal Fraternity do not wear striped jerseys and masks, and carry a bag marked "swag", no matter what "The Beano" may have led you to believe.

Ilikethisone · 29/08/2019 21:04

If the police arent allowed to search people.

Who should be able to?

SchadenfreudePersonified · 29/08/2019 21:05

Sorry Calamity - I hadn't read your post and have practically repeated it word for word.

You heard it from Calamity first, folks. I am just an apparent plagiarist. Grin

NerrSnerr · 29/08/2019 21:08

I used to visit a friend who lived in the red light district of a City. I got stopped a few times by the police when walking to the tram stop on the way home. As PP said, I stopped, chatted to them and answered their questions and they said goodnight and sent me on my way. I wasn't defensive, I didn't back away because there is no reason to.

Nicknacky · 29/08/2019 21:08

This thread has reminded me of the interview that Nick Ferrari did recently with Sophie Khan.

Nick: So what would you do if you stopped a car and the driver runs out with a knife or machete toward you?

Sophie: Ask him why he has a knife and ask him to put it down.😂

Bookworm4 · 29/08/2019 21:14

@nicknacky
As you do 🤣
Excuse me Sir kindly don’t stab me if you don’t mind 🙄

ThatCurlyGirl · 29/08/2019 21:22

Omg @Nicknacky how did I miss that interview?! I thought you would be paraphrasing but she ACTUALLY said that. Bloody hell. In bold below if anyone wants a reference!

Fuck me, yes of course some coppers get it wrong but it's a thankless job now and people don't seem to understand the threat levels members of the force put themselves in constantly. Personally I thank them and recognise that the vast majority are trying to keep us safe in the face of all this shit!

Nick asked again what an officer without a taser should do if someone is coming towards them with a sword and her response was: "Ask him why he's got a knife. Ask him to put the knife down."

tinierclanger · 29/08/2019 21:22

“It doesn't matter WHY they stopped them”

Of course it matters Hmm They need reasonable suspicion.

Nicknacky · 29/08/2019 21:23

curly I actually nearly put a disclaimer on it that I was paraphrasing 😂

FiddlesticksAkimbo · 29/08/2019 21:25

If the police arent allowed to search people.

Who should be able to?

An interesting essay question, but I think you have posted it in the wrong thread Grin

(PS I'm going to opt for traffic wardens? Or maybe the scouts?)

LaBelleSauvage · 29/08/2019 21:28

I think we should ask all knife wielders to wear a large yellow badge

Then police officers would know who to search and there would be no knife crime

FiddlesticksAkimbo · 29/08/2019 21:31

I think we should ask all knife wielders to wear a large yellow badge

Then police officers would know who to search and there would be no knife crime

Or, if you don't like the fact that thee are legal constraints on the police, maybe we should change the law, rather than arguing that it's ok for the police to act unlawfully.

At least that way there will be proper discussion.

LaBelleSauvage · 29/08/2019 21:39

We had a police officer on here who noted that the police officers followed correct search protocol. We do not know their search justification so it's a bit silly billy to say they had none or that it was illegal

But my badge idea would prevent any doubt

HTH

SchadenfreudePersonified · 29/08/2019 21:46

But my badge idea would prevent any doubt

I agree - and we could have a proportion of the badge manufacturers' profits going to a victims' compensation fund.

Different coloured badges for different crimes, obviously. This could be a nice little earner for somebody on Etsy.

eeksville · 29/08/2019 22:33

The op said she lives in an urban area & Im not sure what day it happened but where is everybody else living that 11pm = ghost town & anyone out then must be up to no good as that's when criminals are out?

Candymay · 29/08/2019 23:13

Where I live they have a lot of stop and search initiatives because of gang activity. I have a teenage son and I have talked to him about this in case it happens to him.

Personally I would be very unhappy to be stopped and searched as I would feel somewhat violated. However I do understand the need for police to take this action so I have discussed it with my son and said that I would rather him searched every day than for him to be a victim of violence. I think having discussions about it might help a little if it does happen. The young person can learn to take it less personally perhaps?

It must have been a shock for you all and especially with the police in plain clothes. I hope the experience doesn’t make your sons dislike the police. We all need to respect one another.

Cailleachian · 29/08/2019 23:22

Nick asked again what an officer without a taser should do if someone is coming towards them with a sword and her response was: "Ask him why he's got a knife. Ask him to put the knife down.

That seems like a pretty sensible suggestion to me.

If someone was coming towards me with a sword, in a situation where I had responsibility for de-arming them, I'd do my best to establish a rapport with them, try to understand how they came to be in that situation and get them to put the sword down.

What should an officer without a tazor do when someone is coming towards them with a sword?

(I genuinely feel like I am missing something fundamental here, that other people are seeing and I just cant. I think I'm about to get flamed :( )

OP posts:
Nicknacky · 29/08/2019 23:32

Without a taser you spray, baton or run. Whilst also shouting at them to put it down.

When the level of force is at that level, I’m not gonna stand there and try understand them. I want home alive.

Of course verbal communication is important and is a valuable tool, it’s not the first thing I would be doing if someone is charging towards me with a weapon.

kierenthecommunity · 29/08/2019 23:33

Fair enough @Nicknacky. I guess it would just be an unfortunate number for a police officer to have (like 1488), but odd coincidences happen

Our force had/has a 999 and a 911. People used to think they were taking the piss 😂

I had to google 1488 but I know we don’t use 666

Nicknacky · 29/08/2019 23:35

I’m going to have to google 1488. Is it Sherlock or someone😂?

Cailleachian · 29/08/2019 23:36

@Nickynacky Thanks for that. Genuinely.

Yeah, that is a better plan actually. (although I guess running would only apply when you were alone).

This is probably why I am not a police officer.

OP posts:
Nicknacky · 29/08/2019 23:39

Nope, you would all be running!

Running away from am accused isn’t a failing, it’s better to retreat and keep safe and then come up with a plan. (Clearly not always an option if other members of the public are around).

user1473878824 · 29/08/2019 23:43

OP have you actually bollocked your son for swearing at a police officer yet or just got cross with people doing their jobs?

Cailleachian · 29/08/2019 23:57

I've not really bolloked him, no.

After the police left, I made him and DS1 tea and got them to tell me their version from the start, interjecting where I think he could have acted differently - zoned out during the search; STFU after being pinned (it doesnt help that the level of force used is disputed, but tbh I believe the police officer in this case, I dont think he was that rough).

DS2 is a bit embarrassed over it all today. DS1 on the other hand is quite angry, possibly because he is the one that mainly goes for nightwalks and feels less safe as a result of last night.

OP posts:
SuperSara · 30/08/2019 00:07

OP have you actually bollocked your son for swearing at a police officer yet...

What do you reckon, having read OP's posts?