BoZo off today to ask Queen to suspend parliament

[longwayoff]

Do we fancy a full on civil war? Have we all gone completely mad? This is democracy? AIBU to say this is several steps too far?

Civil war has happened in other countries in similar circumstances, don’t see why it won’t happen in the UK.

Proroguing is usual to end a session of Parliament and start a new one with a Queen’s Speech. This session of Parliament has been unusually long as the last Queen’s Speech was in 2017.

To use a rough analogy
Proroguing and Queen’s Speech is like starting a new school year.
Recess is like half term

this always happens.

Do they always visit the queen on her holidays to do so? I'm not trying to be goady, i'm just curious about the sudden urgency.

My post was in answer to BonnesVacances

They can’t agree on a deal, they can’t agree if the PM is up to it (prev mostly), can’t agree if people voted to leave whatever or take a deal, they vote to block no deal but won’t revoke A50 or put it back to a referendum...

This subject is too divisive, think about where it came from! It seemed so small the first time it came up.

I doubt as a country we could ever agree on what to do, it just isn’t possible. Both ways have benefits and down sides that pretty much even out, it likely doesn’t matter either way in the long term yet the worst place is where we are right now, doing neither! All the benefits of either are being diminished by this endless void of indecision.

Proroguing is usual to end a session of Parliament and start a new one with a Queen’s Speech.

And it normally lasts just a couple of weeks.

Am looking forward to the Queen’s outfit next time too

Thanks chazs. It was based on this tweet from a political scientist really. I've no idea who is right or wrong anymore.

Parliament can control if a recess happens but they have no say over Parliament being prorogued.

BonnesVacances @alanjrenwick is a political scientist in the UCL Constitution Unit. I’d trust his opinion on constitutional matters a great deal more than our current Government:

So there's nothing normal - or trivial - about Johnson's move. It has profound implications for our constitution and democracy.

I see what Bojo has done to be similar to filibustering. Technically within the rules but not within the spirit of them.

So there's nothing normal - or trivial - about Johnson's move. It has profound implications for our constitution and democracy

It does - hope it brings him down.

Right now the petition against has 1,028,968 signatures

I’m appalled the party’s conferences and recess are still going ahead. Us mere mortals in the public services are informed that no professional development or annual leave can be taken during times of pressure.
Additionally I remembered today that I am in the generation who protested against the poll tax, participated in mass non-payment and generally chipped away at Margaret Thatchers stranglehold on the UK. It feels like time to engage in some protesting again, we do have experience.

appalled the party’s conferences and recess are still going ahead

It is unbelievable. We were told by the EU not to waste this time. When May resigned, we had the Conservative elections. Summer is always no action because of the summer recess and the the conference season. You would have thought that in this time of national crisis and division, they would be postponed.

But oh no....

I do think there is protest in the air.

I’m appalled the party’s conferences and recess are still going ahead.

Parliament is prorogued - Johnson’s decision. Recess is different.

Parliament is prorogued - Johnson’s decision. Recess is different

They are on recess at the moment, aren't they?

But apparently they normally vote to have a break for the conferences. They won't have a chance now, will they?

Great headline

But apparently they normally vote to have a break for the conferences. They won't have a chance now, will they?

No they won’t - and it was likely that Parliament would not have voted for recess for conference season given the 31st October deadline.

Johnson has preempted that by suspending Parliament for 5 weeks - and then trying to normalise it by claiming it’s for a Queen’s Speech.

Which normally requires a prorogation of less than 2 weeks.

But - hey - let’s take back control.

Johnson has preempted that by suspending Parliament for 5 weeks - and then trying to normalise it by claiming it’s for a Queen’s Speech.

And avoided media questions like this by avoiding the media.

He is a coward. And a liar.

He is a coward. And a liar.

It’s bloody terrifying.

Courtesy of Twitter

@ianbirrell
What ministers said about prorogation before they put their own careers before the interests of the country

1. @NickyMorgan01
   , culture sec: 'It would lead to a constitutional crisis.'

2. @MattHancock
   , health sec: 'There is this idea from some people that to deliver Brexit we should suspend our parliamentary democracy, we should prorogue parliament. That goes against everything those men who waded onto those beaches fought & died for - and I will not have it'

3. @AmberRuddHR
   dd work & pensions sec: 'The idea of leaving the EU to take back more control into parliament and to consider the idea of closing parliament to do that is the most extraordinary idea I've ever heard. It is a ridiculous suggestion to consider Proroguing parliament

4. Sajid Javid, chancellor: You don't deliver on democracy by trashing democracy . . . we are not selecting a dictator of our country"

5. @MattHancock
   again: Proroguing Parliament undermines parliamentary democracy. I rule it out and call on all candidates to do the same

6. @AmberRuddHR
   again: 'I think it’s outrageous to consider proroguing Parliament. We are not Stuart kings.”

7. @MattHancock
   yet again: 'A policy on Brexit to prorogue Parliament would mean the end of the Conservative Party as a serious party of government'

8. @michaelgove
   , Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster: 'I think it will be wrong for many reasons. I think it would not be true to the best traditions of British democracy

9. @NickyMorgan01
   again: 'Proroguing Parliament is clearly a mad suggestion. You cannot say you are going to take back control … and then go: ‘Oh, by the way, we are just going to shut Parliament down for a couple of months, so we are just going to drift out on a no deal’

10. @andrealeadsom
    , business sec, was asked if she could go along with such a plan. 'No I don’t believe I would and I don’t believe it would happen.'

11. @andrealeadsom
    also said: 'It's certainly not something I would seek to do. I'm passionate about parliament democracy.'

[Reports tonight say there was no dissent expressed from cabinet ministers. According to the Guardian Amber Rudd was 'more reserved than others' but Nicky Morgan was as 'enthusiastic as Andrea Leadsom' in supporting the plan]
12) @GeorgeFreemanMP
, transport minister: 'The idea that a new PM will want, let alone be allowed by backbench MPs or Peers, to prorogue Parliament is bonkers. It would look appalling.'

[Sir John Major, former Tory PM: 'I cannot imagine Mr Disraeli, Mr Gladstone, Mr Churchill or Mrs Thatcher even in their most difficult moments saying let us put parliament aside while I carry through this difficult policy that a part of my party disagrees with.’]

13. @michaelgove
    again: 'One reason I argued to leave the EU was to make our parliament stronger, to reinvigorate our democracy. It would be a terrible thing if having said we should have more power in our country & trust our institutions more we shut the doors of parliament'

14. @BorisJohnson
    , PM (h/t @Sandbach
    ): 'I would like to make it absolutely clear that I am not attracted to arcane procedures such as the prorogation of Parliament. As someone who aspires to be the PM of a democratic nation, I believe in finding consensus in the House of Commons'

@Bahlinda

11 quotes. I'm impressed, not.

The outrage at BJ prorouging Parliament, is ridiculous considering that MPs swanned off on their holidays when the time would have been better spent trying to reach a consensus on how to deliver brexit.

But no the real objective of too many MPs is to ignore the referendum result and scheme to remain in the EU. End result is BJ has started to play the similar tricks that his opponents have been using.

Democracy is not saying I am right and know better so I will ignore you. This applies to both sides of the argument.

Please, even Boris and his cabinet previously acknowledged that what he is doing now is appalling and anti-democratic.

MPs have not been trying to ignore the Referendum result; anything but. Brexit has consumed Parliament since the vote. Yes, building consensus has been nigh on impossible because there was no real plan in place for what would happen if Leave won.

We probably would have had Brexit by now if there was consensus among those willing to vote for it in some form (for example, Leave-supporting MPs who defeated Theresa May's deal because it wasn't Brexitty enough).

I also fail to see what 'tricks' Boris's opponents have been playing. Theresa May lost her majority herself. The only other unusual thing we've seen was when TM's government lost control of the agenda when, shock horror, MPs from both sides of the isle held a (narrowly unsuccessful) series of indicative votes to try and reach a consensus.

Democracy in the UK happens through Parliament. If Brexit happens (which it will), so be it, but it should happen through Parliament - not by shutting down our democracy.