I want Vegetarian choices, not just Vegan!

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

For 25 years I have eaten a vegetarian diet. I am vegetarian because I don't enjoy meat or fish.
I like eggs, cheese and all other dairy products. So I am not vegan.
This summer has shown to me that increasingly restaurants and supermarkets are making their vegetarian dishes vegan. So using substitute milks, cheese etc. I do not want substitutes. I am not vegan. I do not like any of the substitutes (I have tried them as I had a dairy free son for 3 years).
What can be done to protect those who are vegetarian? I am actually genuinely concerned about how places are doing this. It's much more common than people probably even realise (unless you're a vegetarian!). I want food choices when I eat out.

Being vegan-for-the-environment is mostly another dipshit fad (and, like all such things, less righteous than its disciples think.) Eating less meat is not a bad idea, but human beings are, in evolutionary terms, omnivores: few vegans in the northern hemisphere can maintain a really healthy, nutritious diet without processed food and supplements of some type. If you can, then you are privileged because you can not only afford a good range of healthy food, but you have the time to source it, cook it, etc: a lot of people would struggle to go to three different organic greengrocers and simmer lentils for hours. There's quite a bit of snobbery around being vegan, and a fair few vegans who went vegan because suddenly just being a vegetarian didn't get them enough attention.

YANBU. It's driving me mad. By this sentiment everywhere might as well just sell vegan food only as everyone can eat it. I will eat some vegan food but the lack of choice is really annoying.

With polite and articulate arguments like this, it's a wonder everyone isn't vegan.

Well done

@ReanimatedSGB

Theres a fair bit of snobbery around meat eaters like yourself who are just out for an argument and resort to name calling and this desperate attempt to 'win' and prove a point. I dont see what you are getting out of it? How does my diet affect you?
Im not after attention. Very often i just say im veggie cause i cant be arsed with a grilling off the fucking stazi vegan police like yourself. Most of the time i say fuck all unless its relevant and appropriate.
The amount of times i have had some meat eater approach me whilst eating lunch in work and grill me over what im eating is many. The amount of times ive gone up to someone to criticize their lunch choice is the square root of fuck all.

And ive managed to maintain my vegan diet when all i had was 10 pound a week to live off and it was a choice of heating or food so dont sit there and call me privileged
In fact you can, the very fact we have access to the internet, electricity & running water means WE are privileged.
Im not against people eating meat. Eat what you like. But dont sit there and feel the need to go on about my diet.

Mmmm. Lurvely accidentally vegan biscuits full of delicious palm fat.

@pickachew

Cant remember the last time i ate biscuits. Not all biscuits have palm oil you know?
Two wrongs dont make a right.
Think im best checking out of this conversation really. Yet again people resort to snide & nasty comments.

All the ones that aren't made with butter do have palm oil. I've yet to see some that don't.

Oreos were mentioned
www.sainsburys.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/gb/groceries/oreo-cookies-154g?storeId=10151&langId=44&krypto=0SDZfSdeSNHcTDEe2FTMY8pvwDrJufR8KzzpieQuSzCoB2xeJay3pWG2fwb5I7TgXvF%2Fy6CyrroJg1Qz6zB8syung3lbQH3dS5dIBld7ui3VOLoYAcuLBVcqb2w2e4whCOmVSyypk8frt7dc6HGD%2BcZk18Q0%2Bq4gThiTa8ufy1M%3D&ddkey=https%3Agb%2Fgroceries%2Foreo-cookies-154g

Hobnobs are popular accidentally vegan biscuits
www.ocado.com/products/mcvitie-s-hobnobs-10214011

Party rings are often feted for their vegan credentials
www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/biscuit-barrel/foxs-party-ring-biscuits-125g

I wouldnt buy any of them tbh. Lots of vegan items either dont have palm oil or its from a sustainable source.
I generally try to avoid excess sugar & wheat though. Trust me when i say im not exactly wasting away 😂

Don’t worry, vegans are equally annoyed with modern veganism. I’ve been vegan 16 years now, there’s pros of the trend (easier to grab a sandwich, ice cream that’s not vanilla) but basically there’s two new veganism branches and I don’t like either

A. The fake meat/cheese/vegan junk. I don’t want a burger that bleeds thanks, jackfruit is disgusting and I never liked the taste of fish so ‘tofish, doesn’t appeal. Give me an old fashioned bean/veggie burger any day.
Supermarket vegan cheese tastes like the plastic stuff you ate as a kid and nut cheese is nice occasionally but expensive and not cheese.

2.the health food vegan market. Sugar free, gluten free vegan cake? No thanks. Soul bowls, raw lasagne, juice? If I must but it’s not a special meal out. These are often the really crazy vegans too. The ones who tell you that carrot juice has the same nutritional profile as breast milk so can replace formula....

Good simple vegan food is great, a well flavoured burger, a veggie soup and decently cooked tofu. Just getting harder to find.

Some people seem to be missing the point. Cater for vegans. But don't give your vegan option as the veggie option! Both are needed

Errr..... a vegan option IS a veggie option though, if you don't like the choices though then as I tell my kids if you don't like it, lump it.
In other words go elsewhere lol, as plenty of other establishments must surely have something to your taste as everywhere well, nearly everywhere does at least one vegetarian meal you must like.

If you eat or drink soya, as so many vegans do for protein, you are contributing to a really high level of rainforest deforestation. Veganism has its environmental drawbacks too.

And of course there is a difference cruelty wise between a cow being milked and killed for meat. Especially if you go for local farms and avoid mass produced goods.

YANBU OP, ultimately it's about choice. I'm a meat eater though grew up in a veggie household, even the aioli sauce at Leon is vegan now, it's gross - thin and chemically, and yes, less natural than real dairy. Aioli sauce for god sake, the one they serve to everyone from vegans to meat eaters. Can't they at least serve both?

A. The fake meat/cheese/vegan junk. I don’t want a burger that bleeds thanks, jackfruit is disgusting and I never liked the taste of fish so ‘tofish, doesn’t appeal. Give me an old fashioned bean/veggie burger any day

Plenty of people who are transitioning over to less meat, isn't it a good thing that there is something that resembles meat though? Means they eat less meat but don't want to go cold turkey onto lentils and beans etc. Foods they recognise.
You say you've been vegan for years and prefer bean/veggie burgers, well there's still plenty of those on sale.
I for one like all the variety. Everyone should be happy to have what they like.

Vegan trend is working great for us with DC who cant eat milk or eggs

@justasking111

Just checked the ingredients in a morrisons chocolate vegan cupcake. Not sure how nutritious they are?

lol. I don't eat commercial cup cakes for the nutrition. It's just nice to have the choice to eat yummy rubbish from time to time. My point was that they seem to be quite acceptable in taste to omnis.

@leomama81
I see your points but please bear in mind most soya is produced as animal feed. Its not difficult to look it up. I get my protein from a variety of sources not just soya or quorn or whatever.
Ive never eaten at Leon but aoili is often naturally vegan anyway in the med countries it comes from? Doesnt have dairy in? Some use egg some dont.

Vegetarian for 26 years and gradually transitioning to a plant based diet. The whole needing supplements theory is rubbish, three family members all vegan no supplements needed. Delighted that more restaurants are now changing the veggie option to both veggie and vegan however I am finding that they are rubbish options, pizza with really naff vegan cheese (I'd rather have garlic mushrooms and veg and no cheese at all or avocado spread, horrid lentil burger with loads of paprika I'd rather fresh grilled veg in a burger bun. Everything with chips no jacket potato or rice dishes, no fresh veg options but loads of processed however this was what it was like when veggie meals were first introduced and all options were stuffed pepper so I'm hopeful for an upwards curve. Being vegan certainly isn't a fad.

all the vegan desserts I’ve made use natural ingredients like dark chocolate, nuts, seeds, root vegetables, avocados, dates, no “shite” in them

my MIL has made desserts with things like this due to lower sugar needs and honestly, no, yuk. They dont taste right, the texture is off.
Me and sil smile, take a sliver, the go back to hers for real cake

avo is no cream or butter replacement
sweet potato is for roasting with chicken or beef, beetroot is not for cakes
nuts just aint to my taste without a lot of sugar

It is the meat replacements that gross me out (I quite like the coconut cheese stuff, it doesn't taste like cheese but is yummy in its own right in my opinion).

I am not a vegetarian/vegan but I don't like the taste, texture and smell of most meat.

The vegan meat substitutes are too close to the real thing and they are now everywhere, and yes sometimes replacing the vegetarian option.

I’m a vegetarian whose really happy with all the vegan options appearing.

Non vegetarians, including professional cooks and chefs, often don’t even think about things like meat stocks in soups and sauces, calf rennet in cheese, gelatin in desserts, animal fat used for frying etc. so a lot of ‘vegetarian’ food in restaurants isn’t really. People seem to have a much better grasp of what is and isn’t vegan, so ordering vegan means I get something that’s actually suitable for vegetarians without having to enquire about ingredients and cooking methods.

B12 comes from soil bacteria as you mentioned. Its supplemented in most meat eaters too via the supplements they give the animals. Im one of the laziest, skintest people and if i can maintain decent blood levels of nutrients then anyone can if they want to. I take a couple of supplements but i dont see that as "cheating". I really dont see the problem with it to be honest. On a flip note, every aneamic i know is an omni.

This is a vegan propaganda argument that’s been floating around for a while. Animals convert b12 that’s bioavalible for humans. yes it’s in soil but not in a form we can get. Also farmers only give b12 to sick cows it’s far too expensive for them to supplement on a regular basis.

Ex vegan here who was very very sick from a vegan diet, anemic, low vit d and B12. We can’t all tolerate a vegan diet. Our ability to absorb nutrients differ depending on our physiology, our sex, age, if we’re pregnant or sick. Being vegan isn’t a good thing for everyone as the diet slowly depletes nutrients over time.

I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian. However I am just as likely to choose a non meat dish on a menu. I hate the increase in meat substitutes appearing in the vegan dishes and that these are replacing vegetarian dishes. I don't want to eat highly processed food! If I get meat free I want it to be plant based. Before anyone tells me they're plant based, I also hate tofu/soya based.

I live in one of those places where Veganism has frankly got out of hand. I used to be able to get delicious, inventive veggie dishes in restaurants, and now I almost always go for the meat option as they vegan option involves meat substitutes. If the veggie restaurants we used to have could create such deliciousness from plants I don't see why the vegan restaurants are relying so heavily on processed crap frankly.

@Idontlikethatship this old bollocks again, I had a healthy vegan diet thankyou. I Followed to the letter including taking my vitamins everyday. The diet is crap, it can take years for people to get sick as your body uses up its own stores.

For example You can’t get very much iron from spinach at all - a pitiful amount really as your body can’t absorb non heme iron very well even with vitamin c added... plus it has oxalate in it which binds to iron and stops absorption. There’s a lot of propaganda around vegan ‘nutrition’ that people lap up far too readily. Yes some people can survive on a vegan diet by popping vitamins and eating heavily processed fortified foods, but equally lots can’t.

YANBU I've been veggie for all my 40+ years and couldn't agree with OP more. I am fed up of being offered substitutes and having cheese/dairy taken off the menu. Funnily enough, our 50% Indian veggie diet at home could easily be vegan i.e. curries, dahls, rice, etc. The other 50% could also be, ie. pasta, thai, baked potatoes, fajitas, etc etc but we eat dairy too so have cheese, milk.
I don't understand the whole meat replacement thing, perhaps because I've never eaten it. I prefer dishes made from vegetables that look like vegetables otherwise I might as well eat at home.

Errr..... a vegan option IS a veggie option though

And it’s also an option that’s suitable for omnivores and pescatarians but I don’t see anyone advocating for all restaurant menus to be 100% vegan.