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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I want Vegetarian choices, not just Vegan!

330 replies

ThisMustBeMyDream · 26/08/2019 21:31

For 25 years I have eaten a vegetarian diet. I am vegetarian because I don't enjoy meat or fish.
I like eggs, cheese and all other dairy products. So I am not vegan.
This summer has shown to me that increasingly restaurants and supermarkets are making their vegetarian dishes vegan. So using substitute milks, cheese etc. I do not want substitutes. I am not vegan. I do not like any of the substitutes (I have tried them as I had a dairy free son for 3 years).
What can be done to protect those who are vegetarian? I am actually genuinely concerned about how places are doing this. It's much more common than people probably even realise (unless you're a vegetarian!). I want food choices when I eat out.

OP posts:
Someonetookmyusername · 26/08/2019 23:17

Ps the local arts centre makes amazing vegan courgette cake with "cream cheese" you would never know (and I eat meat etc)

Surely someone who will happily eat courgette cake has no tastebuds in the first place Grin.

it was a joke I promise.

MountainDweller · 26/08/2019 23:18

I'm not veggie or vegan but bear with me... I think it's because shops/restaurants can cover more than one special diet with a vegan dish. I have a theory that they do this because I am gluten free, but eat everything else. However when I order a gluten free meal, it's often also dairy free. I think the food providers are trying to cover lactose/dairy free in the same dish as gluten free. So it figures they would do the same with vegetarian/vegan. I can see why you want veggie options that are not vegan. It annoys me - if I can't have gluten in my pizza, I at least want proper cheese!

Someonetookmyusername · 26/08/2019 23:23

MountainDweller it probably also cuts the chances of cross contamination. If you only have to use (for example) a special set of tongs for one dish then people are less likely to make mistakes. I used to work in catering and the amount of times I had to get rid of whole batches of gluten-free brownies and wrestle tongs from servers who couldn't care less was infuriating.

itsbetterthanabox · 26/08/2019 23:32

@clarathepigeon I've asked in quite a few and in different places. Maybe they are using them up still in some places but you can't get one anywhere I've looked.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 26/08/2019 23:35

Does it matter how nutritious cakes are? Who the fuck eats cake to be healthy?!

spongedog · 26/08/2019 23:35

Op - totally with you. I have been a vegetarian in the UK for nearly 40 years. I dont want my (already limited) choices changed for some fashionable fad. What I would like is qualified catering professionals to actually know and understand what vegetarian actually is and cater accordingly. We have an excellent Vegetarian Society who have been instrumental in good food labelling. If people followed that then vegetarian is straightforward. And no, it doesnt include fish or ham.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 26/08/2019 23:36

@justasking111

Interesting yet I still think I will be sticking to the vegan ones. Thanks for trying though Smile.

Coffeeandchocolate9 · 26/08/2019 23:39

I tend to eat veggie and I can't get upset by the vegan for veggie + vegan diets dish. I'm limited because I'm gluten free so often am forced to have a meat choice or side dish but the vegan dishes I've had in a few places have been blooming gorgeous! Apart from the fact that I think a good generous slice of grilled goats cheese belongs on every menu, I'm not in the least upset if it's vegan instead of veggie. But then I haven't noticed a trend for it to be fake meat and cheese, and I wouldn't be a fan of them, just make me something tasty and original without that junk, please!

bumblingbovine49 · 26/08/2019 23:42

I don't see the problem here. How often do you go out to eat? And why can't you eat a vegan dish on some of those occasions?

Wtf?. When I go out it eat, it is because I want to enjoy something I don't usually eat at home. It s a treat to eat out and have something unusual.

I eat meat and fish but live with one vegetarian and one non meat eater . At home we eat about 30-40% vegan meals because it is ' good for us' rather than any of us particularly enjoying most of it and the rest vegetarian .

On the rare occasion I go out to eat, I want something nice and not what I usually eat, otherwise why go out to eat? so I get a.meat option but my vegetarian spouse and son have to settle for the bland shite that is most vegan food.

And I include in that all the supposedly delicious homemade veg/ bean stew and curries and home made falalfel and home made veggie burgers ( from real food not substitutes.) etc etc. Almost without exception I.find most of it bland, uninteresting and unsatisfying and I have been eating a lot of vegans food at home for many many years.And don't get me started on vegan cakes - I have not tasted.a. decent one yet. Gluten free cakes can be nice but not vegan - not in my experience anyway

So OP YANBU

arethereanyleftatall · 26/08/2019 23:44

Of the two, vegetarian or vegan, I would say vegetarian is more 'faddy'. 'Not liking meat' reasons aside, vegetarian for animal cruelty reasons doesn't really make sense. It's essentially reducing the amount of meat you eat (great), but not bothering with the dairy etc aspect which is possibly the crueler.
Veganism is on the rise, perhaps business owners are recognising and responding to this.

Wavescrashingonthebeach · 26/08/2019 23:46

@spongedog

Veganism is also not a "fashionable fad". It has also been around for years. We have a Vegan Society which has been around since 1944. There is an excellent book called Plant Based Nutrition & Health by Stephen Walsh Phd which I bought over 10 years ago which has some sound advice based upon peer reviewed studies.
I find it rather hypocritical & selfish that some people want allowances made for them but not to anyone else.
Most restaurants nowadays have a little key at the bottom to indicate allergens its really not that hard to still get veggie stuff.

Florabritannica · 26/08/2019 23:46

Gluten free cakes, OK, if made with ground almonds or polenta, but don’t get me started on gluten free bread. Several times I’ve bought it by mistake and it’s like eating the contents of a hoover bag.

ClaraThePigeon · 26/08/2019 23:48

That's unfortunate ItsBetterthanabox. I loved those patties and often ordered one when I wanted a Subway.

Fluesome · 26/08/2019 23:49

YANBU, I have noticed this too.

I am not even a vegetarian, I just try to limit meat consumption for environmental reasons.

Vegan dishes can occasionally be lovely, but the lack of cheese / butter is hard to overcome in many dishes, and it feels like a compromise too far.

Bring back halloumi to menus!

On the other hand I like how vegan food is accessible for those with egg and dairy allergies (but perhaps they replace with nuts or other allergens so maybe pass the problem to others?). All restaurants can’t cater to all tastes, so restaurants are also NBU.

ClaraThePigeon · 26/08/2019 23:51

I wonder if this varies by area. You can't move for halloumi in these parts.

bumblingbovine49 · 26/08/2019 23:54

@florabritannica
I.almost added that caveat to.my post. Cakes with polenta or ground almonds are fine . Many of the other flour substitutes are really not I know. Ready made gluten free bread is pretty awful and many of the ready bought cakes are too.
My point was that even 'lovely' home.made from fresh ingredients vegan cakes are pretty awful. The lack of eggs is the major problem. Gluten free cakes can have eggs in so can taste ok if made with good ingredients.

AleFailTrail · 26/08/2019 23:55

I do find it mildly amusing that the same argument used against meat eaters about veggie restaurants-that a meat eater can eat veggie, but a veggie can’t eat meat- is now come full circle. Surely a veggie can eat vegan, but a vegan can’t eat veggie? -note, I’m a meat eater that has a veggie sister who likes all that stuff. Even at good veggie restaurants I found I always left hungry simply because red meat is what my gut bacteria are cultured for.

KinkyFink · 26/08/2019 23:59

But you're forgetting all the lovely hormones and antibiotics and pus that goes into the dairy in those cakes...

AgnesNutterWitch · 27/08/2019 00:00

I think it's less that veganism is a "fad" and more that attitudes are just changing and people are moving with the times.

Most vegetarians I know who didn't eat meat for ethical reasons now realise that there's no point in abstaining from animal flesh while still consuming products that ultimately still result in animals being killed. The idea of being vegetarian but knowing that the milk you drink involves male calves being removed from their mothers and slaughtered or that the byproduct of the eggs you eat is male chicks being thrown into grinders doesn't make a lot of sense any more to many people.

Similarly there's an increased awareness of the climate change crisis and the adverse environmental impact of cattle farming especially. That might be another good reason why people don't want to eat dairy as well as abstaining from meat.

I appreciate that you, OP, aren't vegetarian for ethical or environmental reasons but I'd say you're probably in a minority there.

BitOftheSea · 27/08/2019 00:03

The thing I’m finding weird, having not eaten meat for many years, is how much like meat companies are trying to make vegan food. So many people have converted recently and obviously still crave the taste of meat and I find those things basically inedible. Anything more meaty than quorn makes me feel sick.

goldfinchfan · 27/08/2019 00:05

veganism will most like die out because it is not healthy
I tried it for 3 years and felt very holy...Me I don't eat animals etc.......but I got sicker
there is no B12 without animal produce and also much natural food is less nutritious anyway because the soil they are grown is also lacking nutrients.
Best to eat fresh foods, not processed cheese ugh.....
eat some but not much organic meat and enjoy

donquixotedelamancha · 27/08/2019 00:05

Yes, clearly vegetarians need some of needless cruelty added to their food in order to feel like they're not going without. hmm....Honestly, vegetarianism is an utter waste of time.

With polite and articulate arguments like this, it's a wonder everyone isn't vegan.

justasking111 · 27/08/2019 00:06

I had a veggie or vegan lunch the other day I just realised. To be honest I just pick what I fancy on the menu. I find meat very heavy on the stomach these days.

ClaraThePigeon · 27/08/2019 00:08

Veganism can be perfectly healthy, so long as you don't have certain medical conditions/allergies and you do it correctly. A lot of the Youtube ex vegans ate very poorly or were raw vegan/no oil/didn't eat enough etc. I have a friend who has been vegan for 22 years and counting. She's very healthy and active, much more so than me(Not that it'd be hard).

Wavescrashingonthebeach · 27/08/2019 00:12

@goldfinchfan
B12 comes from soil bacteria as you mentioned. Its supplemented in most meat eaters too via the supplements they give the animals. Im one of the laziest, skintest people and if i can maintain decent blood levels of nutrients then anyone can if they want to. I take a couple of supplements but i dont see that as "cheating". I really dont see the problem with it to be honest. On a flip note, every aneamic i know is an omni.