I want Vegetarian choices, not just Vegan!

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

For 25 years I have eaten a vegetarian diet. I am vegetarian because I don't enjoy meat or fish.
I like eggs, cheese and all other dairy products. So I am not vegan.
This summer has shown to me that increasingly restaurants and supermarkets are making their vegetarian dishes vegan. So using substitute milks, cheese etc. I do not want substitutes. I am not vegan. I do not like any of the substitutes (I have tried them as I had a dairy free son for 3 years).
What can be done to protect those who are vegetarian? I am actually genuinely concerned about how places are doing this. It's much more common than people probably even realise (unless you're a vegetarian!). I want food choices when I eat out.

Bloody hell, Wavescrashing, if you're a veggie with that menu there's loads of choice, can't complain at all that!

Being a mum, you’d think you’d not want dairy

What crap, just cos I'm a mum don't mean I lose my sense of taste, my like of good cheese and a creamy latte

Setting aside your comparison of cows to people, your argument completely falls down at:

With the majority of vegan dairy alternatives, you can’t even tell it’s not dairy

Absolute bullshit.

If vegan dairy alternatives tasted like dairy people wouldn't object nearly as much.

@squeekums I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse but the comment about being a mum had nothing to do with taste, it's about having some empathy for dairy cattle

Ah so taste of cheese and coffee is more important than a mother having her baby taken away and being used and abused for her whole life. Ok

Oh do shut up you two! It’s people like you who give the rest of us a bad name. Eat what you want but don’t spout nonsense to try and shove it down people’s throats.

My argument doesn’t fall down at all.
Using and abusing mothers for 5 minutes of pleasure in your mouth is absolutely barbaric.
Find the right plant based milk for your drink and you can’t tell it’s not dairy. Same for everything. Each person obviously has different tastes and so each needs to try different products out in order to find which one suits their tastes buds.
There is no argument against veganism. A plant based diet will save our planet.
Murder and rape is wrong.
Abusing and torturing innocent beings is wrong

I have same issue. I still want dairy!

Subway changed the veggie patty:(

@MyGhastIsFlabbered I'm not sure if you're being deliberately obtuse but the comment about being a mum had nothing to do with taste, it's about having some empathy for dairy cattle

Oh I got that, but how a cow feels ain't on my mind when it's cold and dark at 6am. Hot coffee that tastes good is.
After wine, I want REAL cheese not fake cheese
Reality is people eat based on likes and dislikes. I won't eat stuff I don't like cos it eco, vegan, ethical or whatever. I also won't pay extra for them sorts of labels, like many people.

Using the whole mum angle is designed to try guilt and it don't work on me.

@WalkofShame I hope your comment isn't addressed to me. I'm not sure I've spouted any nonsense or pushed it down anyone's throat. I was merely addressing a comment about why people might find dairy distasteful.

Eat what you like, and I'll do the same.

I’m vegetarian - as are many in my family - and we have talked about this. We all have what we call ‘vegan tendandies’ so only having a vegan option isn’t a big deal. However, I think as we’ve all been vegetarian going on 20 years at least, that it feels like we’ve struggled to have choices but now that veganism is on the rise, we do have choices but because businesses are catering for vegans - where has our choice been for all these years? That’s what the ‘kicker’ is but ultimately I’m just happy to have more choice.

However, I do have conflicting feelings regarding going completely vegan as it still has a huge carbon footprint. For me, an environmentally conscious diet is one that looks at that first and animal welfare second. Also, for a huge percentage of the world there is no alternative but meat. The ‘Climate Change and Land’ report is very interesting so as far as climate change goes, it’s reducing air miles of food and eating local produce that has most impact.

*Agriffiths(

Animals do not think and feel the same way that people do. This isn't peppa pig. Our brains are entirely different.

Where is the cow music, poetry, art, engineering, screeds on the internet about the plight of the upright ape?

You may argue that cows don't have opposablethumbs but I would argue that if cows were as intelligent and emotional as humans were they would find a way. There are no hoof prints in the lascaux caves.

Pretending that cows think and feel the way that when separated from their parents is silly, and comparing cows to trafficked humans is offensive.

Does the dairy industry need reform? Yes. But there are many problems with the consumer choice model of creating change, and upsetting emotional attacks like yours do not help.

I'm vegetarian for the same reasons just don't like meat and fish. So often when I eat out I'd just love a bit of cheese on something. Overall I think the prevelance of vegan food is a good thin though. But I do wish people would remember vegetarians exist!

*the way that human children do when separated from their parents

I think it’s fine everyone can eat the vegan option and it’s very rare there is no option to adapt it at all. I cope without dairy and eggs for one occasional meal. There are now more options I can have as a result of the new vegan options, I struggled with the limited veggie option previously.

I am happy with a good quality non processed vegan meal by as others have said very often the option given is heavily
processed. At a local pub the veggie burger now comes with vegan mayonnaise - not sure what that is made of and I'd rather not eat it. On a recent flight we ordered veggie meals, what was presented was vegan and halal. My kids had the standard meal. We got one stale
Bread roll, kids got white roll with butter and cheese. I think as others have said current trend is for cheapest option.

Everyone can eat the vegan option but it seems unfair to not have a vegetarian option when there are usually at least 10 meat/ fish options!

not sure what that is made of and I'd rather not eat it.

Hellman's vegan mayo

Hellman's real mayo.

The ingredients actually look pretty similar to me...

I'm a vegetarian loving the explosion of vegan options. No one is depriving anyone of dairy, its definitely still available pretty much everywhere! But it's great to see the innovation going into vegan options, dairy production really isn't great so I'm happy to be able to cut down on that and I've tried loads of fabulous new foods, thank you vegans! Still love cheese though.

waves great menu! Look at that, not just veg canneloni anymore! How lucky we veggies are that there is now so much more choice

The [mayo] ingredients actually look pretty similar to me...

Nice trick - replace the egg content with modified starch, put on a green lable and double the price (80p per 100g against 42p per 100g). Would love to understand the cost model justifying that!

It doesn't need to be fair it needs to be profitable. Do you know how much vegetarian/vegan food gets thrown out in some of these pubs because it's not being ordered?
Where as meat products appeal to a majority of the customers. Of course it will never be equal. It's supply and demand.

How superior of you to assume that other people’s veganism is less deeply rooted than your own vegetarianism.

‘I’ll still be veggie long after this vegan fad hasn’t fazed out’ I’d be willing to bet people said this type of self-righteous nonsense about your vegetarianism when you first made the change, how sad to see you’ve managed to become just as bad as them.

It does look a decent menu im looking forward to trying some of those items. For someone who spent the best part of 20 years with often no veggie, never mind VEGAN, option in pubs beyond spud & beans i really dont know myself these days