I want Vegetarian choices, not just Vegan!

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

For 25 years I have eaten a vegetarian diet. I am vegetarian because I don't enjoy meat or fish.
I like eggs, cheese and all other dairy products. So I am not vegan.
This summer has shown to me that increasingly restaurants and supermarkets are making their vegetarian dishes vegan. So using substitute milks, cheese etc. I do not want substitutes. I am not vegan. I do not like any of the substitutes (I have tried them as I had a dairy free son for 3 years).
What can be done to protect those who are vegetarian? I am actually genuinely concerned about how places are doing this. It's much more common than people probably even realise (unless you're a vegetarian!). I want food choices when I eat out.

I was moaning to dh about this too. I fucking love cheese but can't stand meat substitutes or fake cheese made out of coconut oil. And if a restaurant is offering a dozen meat or fish dishes, is it really too much to ask for them to offer both a vegetarian and a vegan option?

I guess it's a simple case of supply and demand for businesses.
If they provide a vegan option, that covers vegetarians too.
As a meat eater, I hadn't realised this was happening, but from a business perspective, it makes economic sense.

That must be really annoying. I'm a meat eater, but I've been to a couple of parties where people have said 'just bring vegan food so everyone can eat it'.

I don't want to eat your stupid oil cakes that don't rise or your gross substitute cheese. I just took the piss a bit and brought pop and crisps.

Lots of places you can't ask for it with normal cheese because they are pre-made and frozen (especially in the big chain pub type of places).

@aliensprig are you ok? You sound a bit cross, maybe you are hangry?
There will be no cows and hens to 'protect' from OP's 'pointless diet' if everyone turned vegan. They will become extinct.

I agree, most vegan food is processed crap. I would much prefer to eat natural food like eggs, dairy - which is full of goodness and essential vitamins - despite what your average vegan thinks....

And don't get me started on the price differential. Had a posh meal out recently. All the starters were priced between £8 and £10. Meat eaters and fish eaters were offered things like smoked salmon, duck pate crab etc beautifully presented with a range of things on the plate (I nearly said accessories but you get the picture) and generous portiins. The only non meat/ fish starter was beetroot carpaccio. My money bought 3 wafer thin slices of raw beetroot, 7 peashoots (and yes, I counted) and a piped on button of mashed fake cheese.

I have noticed this too. I much prefer vegetarian options to tofu and ridiculous, revolting "vegan cheese"

I don't want to eat your stupid oil cakes that don't rise or your gross substitute cheese.

There is loads of great vegan food that doesn’t involve fake cheese or meat, and lots of great baking stuff too.

It's ironic that for years some (please note some!) vegetarians have gone with the approach of 'let's eat vegetarian, as we can all eat that' with their meat eating friends. Now the same approach is happening to them.

As a meat eater, would you be happy with
no meat choices. Just a vegetarian option, and a vegan option? And if more and more restaurants were choosing to stop serving meat, or just using substitute meat instead?

The thing I find is that often the vegan option given has no protein, but again, I appreciate work catering is different. I do like tofu. I’m happy for vegans to get more options but I have family members who are vegan and they'd also wonder where the protein was in some meals I’ve been offered.

One work lunch this week - in central London FFS - the options were several meat dishes, or a roasted cauliflower with veg. I suppose the vegan options are cheaper so they’re also keen for that reason?

I guess it's a simple case of supply and demand for businesses.
If they provide a vegan option, that covers vegetarians too.

But it doesn't because vegetarian food is completely different to vegan food. Why not just have a menu that only includes food with no allergens and no animal products - then everyone can eat everything right?

But it doesn't because vegetarian food is completely different to vegan food.

Is it? Is it really?

@PurpleDaisies the only nice ‘vegan’ food is actually just normal food that happens to be vegan friendly like vegetables, hummus etc.... I’ve never had a nice vegan cake, vegan ‘cheese’, vegan ‘milk’ it’s all horrible processed crap that must be so bad for you.

Some people seem to have a weird idea of vegan food. There are plenty of vegan foods that don't include faux meat or cheese. I eat meat but I often make and enjoy vegan dishes and sometimes I order them in restaurants. Vegetarian food doesn't have to include dairy or eggs, so no, they aren't completely different.

Well this is rubbish WiltshireLass - most vegan food is processed crap. Chickpea curry, butternut squash stew, aubergine dishes...I’m not even veggies, never mind vegan, but I cook food which sometimes happens to be vegan. No additives, no crap. If you are eating at places where the vegan food is processed crap, I’d hazard a guess that the main menu is pretty shit too.

There is loads of great vegan food that doesn’t involve fake cheese or meat, and lots of great baking stuff too.

Fair point on the cheese. But my sister is vegan and loves cake. I have tried hundreds, from many different cafes (she always insists I try) they have never tasted as good as real cake.

This thread is bonkers. It really reminds me of how meat eaters post about vegetarians.

"As a meat eater, would you be happy with
no meat choices. Just a vegetarian option, and a vegan option? "

Well yeh. It's one meal, it won't kill me.

And what do vegetarians need to be "protected" from?

YANBU. I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years and have noticed that vegetarian choices are being replaced with vegan ones which often contain very highly processed dairy substitutes. My recent experiences include eating a fake chicken burger that was so lifelike I couldn't get it down and barbecued pulled jackfruit in a bun which was awful.

I’ve been annoyed about this for months. Wagamama took the egg out, pubs only offer cheese substitutes on my vegan (not veggie) burger and even Sainsbury’s stopped selling my kids favourite quorn frankfurters to free up space for vegan alternatives. The waitress in pizza express told me my non-vegan giardiniera order was asked for by lots of customers!

I agree, OP. I’m not vegetarian, but only eat fish and small amounts of chicken. I have always relied on the vegetarian options in restaurants as being my safe bet. But fake ‘vegan’ meat, cheese, grim dairy substitutes and processed vegan fast food crap? Hard pass. Bring back cheesy and eggy and creamy options!

cardibach I would cook all those dishes with butter, tastes much better and has healthy fat and vitamins from the butter.

So lonely - well yes, everyone could eat everything at a vegan restaurant but they might not want to, so they would take their custom elsewhere.
Businesses make and sell what people will buy. The higher the economy of scale, the better. It's as simple as that.