I want Vegetarian choices, not just Vegan!

[ThisMustBeMyDream]

For 25 years I have eaten a vegetarian diet. I am vegetarian because I don't enjoy meat or fish.
I like eggs, cheese and all other dairy products. So I am not vegan.
This summer has shown to me that increasingly restaurants and supermarkets are making their vegetarian dishes vegan. So using substitute milks, cheese etc. I do not want substitutes. I am not vegan. I do not like any of the substitutes (I have tried them as I had a dairy free son for 3 years).
What can be done to protect those who are vegetarian? I am actually genuinely concerned about how places are doing this. It's much more common than people probably even realise (unless you're a vegetarian!). I want food choices when I eat out.

I am well aware that eggs and cheese are not just "plonked" on the plate, although they can be! You will find milk in a vast range of products in the supermarket, check out Quorn unless its the vegan quorn as just one example but lactose (milk Sugar) is in items that get taken for granted such as medications. I have had treatment for cancer and during the first round put up with the additional effects of lactose in the drugs and only found out in the second round of chemo that there were meds that were lactose free! You have to check everything as manufacturers change recipes and formulations all the time. I think that there needs to be choice available for everyone, all I'm trying to illustrate is that some people have much less options open to them and a little understanding from others goes along way.

I stopped eating meat and eggs over 30 years ago as a child.
I would not be a vegan as I love love love cheese. Most cheese has been vegetarian for 30 years but even before that, there were some labelled as non animal rennet.

I would never become vegan because of cheese and because of the over use of palm oil in all products including vegan ones.

The person who said a vegetarian may as well eat meat how stupid. If you don't like something then how is it hypocritical not to eat it. I have never liked meat. Simple. I also haven't liked milk for years.

I'm not choosing to be vegetarian because of animal cruelty per se. I wear leather shoes. Leather is a byproduct that I will not bypass even though I don't like the main product.

I limit my bought palm oil products (which ruined chocolate but that's another thread) or buy battery eggs or chicken for my kids/dog because I don't agree with being needlessly cruel when there are other ways.

We don't need to hurt cows to have milk. Hurting cows is a byproduct of human greed and big business. Likewise with deforestation and loss of orangutans due to palm oil.

But I agree op when subway got rid of the veggie pattie they have lost most of my business and if more places get rid of real cheese then they will lose my business too.

There's actually a lot more natural and unprocessed vegan food than there is natural and unprocessed non vegan food.

Fruit, vegetables, pulses, nuts, seeds, rice, potatoes...all natural.

That’s not vegan food it’s just food that happens to be ok for vegans to eat. 😂 everyone else eats all that healthy food too... vegan food is all gross processed crap.

FFS...

Why are people so fucking invested in what other people eat?

Eat what you want, don’t go on about it, regardless of your choices. If someone else tells you they’re veggie, vegan, pescatarian, gluten free, omnivorous etc it doesn’t mean they’re going on about it, they might just be explaining what they can / can’t eat. If you ask them why they’ve made that choice, listen to the answer without being a twat. Then get on with your own meal. It’s really not that hard.

I think you'll find the number of vegans in the UK is gradually on the increase, and will only continue to be

Honestly, I don't think veganism is really increasing in the UK. I think all that's happened is that the number of people identifying as vegan has risen. There was a thread a few weeks ago from a self-described "relaxed vegan" who ate eggs and dairy. When people pointed out that she wasn't actually a vegan at all, she (and several other posters) called them elitist and pedantic I've also seen threads on here in which "vegans" admit that they secretly eat meat now and then. One woman said that her son is a vegan, and then in the very same thread mentioned that he eats fish. I've heard similar things in real life. I think many people don't actually understand what the word "vegan" means, and simply think it refers to someone who has reduced their consumption of animal products.

The vegan food I cook isn’t processed crap @Wiltshirelass2019. HTH.

YANBU. I spoke to DS about this recently. I love lots of vegan food, but I also love dairy.

I love how all these militant vegans start spouting animal abuse when it comes to eggs and dairy. Perhaps one or two ought to actually spend time on a proper dairy farm or chicken layer farm.
We keep our own chickens. They are free range, they get taken to the vet when they are poorly and there are plenty of 'free-loader' chickens who are past their laying ages but continue to live a happy life with us and their friends until their natural end.
I live right next door to two dairy farms - the cows are all kept outside - but have the option in the winter to use a barn in bad weather. When it comes to breeding, there is an actual bull, not AI. The calves also aren't taken away at birth either - the mothers nurse them for several months. They are only ever given medicines if they are actually poorly (I know this for a fact as I went round to borrow some anti-inflammatory meds for one of my sheep and they only had an old, out of date bottle to hand as the vets usually give them needed meds).
I'm not entirely sure where the abuse these vegans spout is, but I'm sure one will be along to make something up to suit their agenda...

I've noticed this too OP.

I'm happy about it in most cases because I much prefer meat substitutes to bean burgers etc, and a lot of vegan options seem to be those.

Other times, I think the restaurant should offer an optional vegan swap for their menu items. EG. Pizza Express, where most veg pizzas come with vegan cheese as standard now.

One thing I've noticed is that the calories for vegan substitutes aren't readily available alongside the other menu items either.

For example, Papa John's now do a couple of vegan pizzas but I can't find the calories anywhere so don't know if it's better or worse for me!

The calves also aren't taken away at birth either - the mothers nurse them for several months.

On a dairy farm? You're talking absolute bollocks.

We keep our own chickens. They are free range, they get taken to the vet when they are poorly and there are plenty of 'free-loader' chickens who are past their laying ages but continue to live a happy life with us and their friends until their natural end.

I'm not a vegan but that is in no way the norm. Let's not pretend that's how your average farm functions. Likewise with the cattle.

I'm veggie because I don't enjoy meat- never have done. In an upmarket trendy place at the weekend the veggie choice was vegan- Seitan fillets. This was new to me- never heard of them. I consciously swerve fake meat stuff like quorn as it's often over processed crap. I was intrigued (and hungry) so I ordered it. It was honestly like really poor quality chicken breast- rubbery and stringy and vaguely savoury- like the cheapest thai import fillet.

Shame- cos the side dishes were amazing

@AnAC12UCOinanOCG

Really??? I can assure you I'm not - the field that the cows and calves are in from one of the farms backs directly onto our back garden. The cows munch on our hedge and my children take great pleasure in trying to entice the calves to them (to no avail). Just because you don't believe it happens (or perhaps it just doesn't fit into your agenda or prejudice), doesn't mean that it doesn't. It's not even an organic farm (officially) - it's just an ordinary dairy farm.

Like I said in my previous post - it would be good if some of these militant vegans actually spent some time on a dairy farm - they might actually learn something. Or they could just carry on spouting propaganda to fit in with what they hope other people will believe.

@ClaraThePigeon

No, I'm not saying that's how all chicken farms work but a large percentage of the population could easily keep a few chickens in the garden for their own use. Just like people used to do years ago.

Again, That is definitely not the norm.

X post but That's not how most dairy farms work either.

I recently went to a 3 day conference where all the catering was vegan!
I'm a carnivore who eats meat a couple of times a week plus fish. The remainder is veggie with 1 vegan meal every week.
It was an interesting culinary experience!
It made me realise how hard it is to actually vegan properly, with due regard to a balanced diet and the need for protein.
If I were vegetarian and was only being offered vegan food I would not be very happy really . It's adding restrictions and substitutes into a diet that isn't required for vegetarians and I understand why people would be annoyed.

This kind, gentle dairy farm is kind of missing the point. My son’s vegan because he has an ethical objection to exploiting animals. So he won’t wear wool or leather, doesn’t eat honey or anything else of animal origin. Part of me thinks it’s a touch bonkers but I have huge respect for his integrity and principles, particularly since it makes life bloody difficult for him. Oh, and he doesn’t preach or try to convert the rest of us.

It’s not unreasonable to want a choice of dishes you can eat, regardless of being a meat eater, veggie or vegan. If paying for a meal out why shouldn’t it be something you like?

If someone wants to eat meat, cheese or be vegan that is fine. All are valid choices and we are all entitled to eat what we want so why these kinds of threads always turn in to bun fights is beyond me.

Vegans think that vegetables and fruit are vegan which is funny. The amount of animals and insects that die in vegetable farming is huge. From traps to shooting to bring killed by machinery. Vegans love to say - ‘well I’m doing my best’, implying that other people aren’t. Be vegan but get off your ethical pedestal - People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Not to mention that the vegan diet is far too carb-heavy for some people. I'm an omni, I enjoy the odd vegetarian/vegan meal. Delicious stuff when well prepared. But for the most part, I couldn't care less about delicious. I lift, and lift heavy, and I need protein. I tried to go vegan, and saw no progress with my muscle building. So, bollocks to that - animal protein all the way if you're lifting.

Very few people “lift”.

I think it’s just easier to sell a blanket meal to appease both groups than create two separate dishes.

LaVieilleHarpie yeah I had to eat animal protein when doing IVF, it made a huge difference to the outcome - there are study’s showing how important it is. It’s just not possible for everyone to be vegan.