Self ID women being asked to volunteer in Devon Rape Crisis Centre *Triggering - rape*

[Theendofmyrope]

AIBU to think this is just fucking insane? Is this how it is going to be from now on? As the parent of a rape victim I feel beyond angry. Is no place safe for women now?

Because they don’t need to fund new spaces when women have already set them up for them. The mindset we are seeing in action is to simply walk in and take what they want.
The TWAW mantra enables entitled, misogynistic men to decimate and make a mockery of women’s rights. It serves no purpose for women or genuine trans people ( by genuine I mean non AGP).

But non-binary people (who are female) do not want to be seen as women. So Stonewall are riding tough shod over their rights as well as eveeyone else's.

What about trans men (that usually silences discussion, sadly). Yes, they are female but ...

So the issues with transmen are five-fold:
despite being* female, they don't and don't want to see themselves as such, so may not want to access female-only services.

• those that "pass" well will be perceived (wrongly) as penis owners by other females.
• they will have similar requirements as transwomen vis à vis the interaction between rape or DV trauma and gender dysphoria, an interaction that people who are not gender dysphoric won't face...
• ...but face pregnancy-related issues that transwomen don't face.
• Vaginal rape is used by men to "refeminise" transmen, it's a form of corrective rape. Vaginal rape tells the transman "you're a woman, don't you ever forget it, you can't help yourself to male privilege". The radfem view is "you can't identify out of being female and suffering female oppression" and feminist counseling services like Rape Crisis would frame rape in that context of patriarchal oppression by default. Whilst correct, a feminist rape counselor counseling a raped transman from the start point that said transman was raped because, under patriarchy, females are the rape class and can't opt out of that, might not be helpful to that transman at that time.

I think we need to ask "what about the transmen?" more often.

1. Transmen are our sisters, even if they don't realise it nor want it (yet). 1a) Therefore we fight for their rights, even if they hate us.
2. Every time TW ignore TM, it speaks volumes about their male-first agenda. We challenge that when we say "WATTM?" 2a) And when TW claim that TM enjoy male privilege, we challenge that shit too.

Transmen's needs are another reason in favour of dedicated trans rape trauma services. I've said already why a female-focused service would fail a transman. A male-focused counseling service would have no experience of handling gender dysphoria nor of pregnancy. A transman who is raped needs to be able to call a line and have the person who answers understand all these issues and for the transman not to be put in the position of having to educate h** counselor.

Stonewall have more than enough cash to set a service this up at national level right away. We as feminists should scrutinise any such service and lobby for transmen's needs to be met. Otherwise it'll be all TW TW TW as usual.

Oh, and...

OP: no, YANBU.

Message deleted by @MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I call out blatant gaslighting, without naming names, yet I get deleted?

What about people who have phobias of penises, it doesn't matter if it's attached to a male or female.

Penises aren't attached to women, only men.

(With the possible exception of trans sex people, which is a relatively rare, complex chromosomal condition).

Relating to the last few PPs, there's a stock response. 'It's none of your business what I have in my pants'.

To which my response could legitimately be: 'And it's none of the business of pe-penised people what I have in mine. That still didn't stop two of them at once helping themselves to what was in them, and without my consent'.

'Phallophobic'. That's a new one on me. What a fucking disgusting epithet to give to a woman who has been the victim of rape. And having been in that position, despite its insulting connotations I can emphatically say that at that time it's a badge I'd have worn with pride.

bd67th I totally agree with your assessment of the situation for trans men.

MarieIVanArkleStinks so very sorry for you and all victims of rape and abuse.

So they will call and speak to who? Trevor or Dave (or Millicent-Mary-Besse or Antionette-Daisy-Belle)? And the lines will be taken up with this rather than what they are there for?

Bugger - no photo.

Eh?

I posted that up thread Lord - the number for the team manager is not the same as the helpline number

Sorry - missed it. I’d hate to be answering that line.

'Phallophobic'. That's a new one on me. What a fucking disgusting epithet to give to a woman who has been the victim of rape.

I concur, but I also don't know a better one. As I said upthread, it's not phobia - an irrational fear - to be scared of penises and their owners if you've been raped, or even just female. No other body part can be misused as a weapon to leave the victim pregnant. Fearing that misuse is eminently rational.

^Sorry - missed it. I’d hate to be answering that line.

Why don't they put a statement online? The team leader must be getting a lot of calls and a statement would stop all that. Are they giving different messages to different callers? I can't think of a different reason for not just making a statement.

Are they giving different messages to different callers?

I'd bet money one it.

Bd67th - I misread you. I had assumed this was rhetoric the TRA had actually used: what with their cervix havers and chest feeders it sounds exactly like their kind of language. But yes, it’s a term that very effectively describes these kinds of attitudes. After all If they can daub ‘kill TERFs’ all over the windows of a rape crisis centre it’s not too much of a stretch.

Some ‘penis-havers’ (See what I did there!) will seemingly go to any lengths to foist themselves on women and into our spaces. We are truly screwed if even rape crisis centres are not sacrosanct.

Jumping waaaaaay ahead to say thanks to @GirlScout72 for the links to those studies you posted a couple of days ago. Plain-speaking, good data, absolutely horrifying situation.

@Dutch1e hat's off to the women brave enough to speak up, eh? Did you see Vancouver Rape Relief (who lost their funding due to TRA lobbying) had a dead rat nailed to the door frame of their therapy room? And then woke up this morning to vandalism all over the windows wishing death on "T*RFS"?

How anyone can read those reports I shared, and see what is actually happening in this area, and not see the problems is either wilfully blind and / or suffering from masses of internalised misogyny.

Oh and when discussing this topic I'm always reminded of that recent meeting of the Women and Equalities select committee, where Karen IS gave evidence. The transwoman from Cornwall, who was obvs advocating for trans inclusion in domestic and sexual violence services, had taken to twitter that morning, on the train on the way there, complaining that whichever train company's Wifi it was blocked porn sites, and they'd wanted to watch porn to pass the time on the train.

I am reminded of the scene in the man with two brains, 'just give me a sign'.

Where are the men in this? Where are the men calling for more recognition and attention to male children who are victims of grooming etc, which tends to take a bit of a different form to girls. Where are the men standing up for gay and gnc men who are subjected to assault by men? Where is it?

Shunned by the patriarchy. It doesn't fit the agenda. Most areas where sexually assaulted/raped men can find help are in tiny, tiny, forums online. These are often infiltrated.

TMI, a huge majority of men ejaculate whilst being raped/assaulted. Involuntary physiological reaction, just like women. It's used to imply "enjoyment" (like women), and a "gay marker".

The patriarchy is not kind to sexually abused males.

I saw the ogre pop up on twitter to defend Devon - a few people have pointed out the treatment of the Vancouver centre to them, but the ogre is hard of understanding apparently.

Would a tread woman on a kick want a trans woman counsellor? Yes there will be trans women who are raped (how many centres are there for them? Why aren’t people pushing for that rather than trying to muscle into woman only ones??) and need help but I have seen some ‘validatory’ posts and photos of males on woman centres crowing and strutting in their ‘woman only’ spaces (sometimes after having women thrown out for being dreadful - ie asking why a man is there). Now that sort would surely want a woman to deal with them - or else where’s the fun?

The other thing that grinds me gears is the 'rape fantasy' accounts of sexual assault that get bandied around by them, there was one particularly notorious one on twitter by someone whose name sounds like muscavado, for ANYONE with ANY training in therapy, sexual violence, coercion, porn addiction etc, it was blantantly and clearly an erotic fantasy. The naivete of the handmaids is quite something.

Was reading a thread the other day from Samaritans volunteers, creepy blokes ringing up with rape stories, that they force a woman to listen to in excruiating and intimate detail whilst heavy breathing down the phone is a well known 'thing'.

I appreciate there are male sexual survivors, but it's not women's job to fight the patriarchy for them too, their place in it is uniquely different to women's and afaik no one's going to ask them what colour their pants were either, or if they'd been drinking or flirting or otherwise 'asking for it'.

A woman's body is ENTIRELY different currency in this world than a man's, which is why women need distinct services and spaces.

It's not women's job to wipe the tears of the entire world

@GirlScout72 yes, after finally making my way to this end of the thread, I saw the hate crimes against Vancouver Rape Relief.

Seems odd doesn't it? To try to pick on women. As if we have no idea how that works or what to do about it. As if we haven't been dealing with this, and burying the bodies, for thousands of years.