Self ID women being asked to volunteer in Devon Rape Crisis Centre *Triggering - rape*

[Theendofmyrope]

AIBU to think this is just fucking insane? Is this how it is going to be from now on? As the parent of a rape victim I feel beyond angry. Is no place safe for women now?

They are looking for FI women (non binary, gender neutral, TW, fluxuating binary)“

These are not women though? Is a NB person a self identifying women now?

PP 1 - Anyone can commit rape, a penis is not a pre-requisite and I'm concerned if this is your narrow definition.

PP 2 - Absolutely wrong. Under current UK legislation only a man can commit rape!

PP2 is of course correct, as far as the legal definition is concerned. A moral definition is something else entirely, and for this reason I think there's all manner of wrong as far as the legal definition is concerned. Enforced sexual contact is traumatic and awful, and an experience which shouldn't be minimized if it didn't happen to have been inflicted upon them by a penis. (NB. I was once a victim of rape by two men, in the same incident).

I'm with the posters who see nothing wrong at all in providing a service to transwomen, and offering them counselling by transwomen. Traumatized female rape victims should, however, not be compelled to accept counselling from be-penised people, and not be dismissed as 'transphobes' if they exercise that choice.

The problem many women seem rightly concerned about is that this has not been the precedent set within the USA and Canada, the latter of which has rape crisis centres which have been actively targeted by the TRA lobby.

How sad that even the sensitive issue and particularly invasive, revolting and traumatizing crime of rape is not immune from politicking, and has found itself at the centre of an 'agenda'. (As if victims of this crime, with the low conviction rate and 'put up, shut up' mentality of society in general don't already suffer enough).

If the woman doesn't want to talk to the person she initially talks to she can hang up.
i have done this in the past. I didn't like the person on the phone and hung up and called back.
There's also online chat support, so already victims could be talking to anyone.

The point I was trying to make was that there has been lots of assumptions - DRCC is for females only. Had these posters been bothered they would have looked at the site. They haven't. The centre already deal with males. Chances are they are also handling the anonymous calls they get a couple of nights a week. If males answering the phones was an issue for local females, they would have already spoke out.
The centre may already have self id'ing males/females working there.

They are looking for FI women (non binary, gender neutral, TW, fluxuating binary) a broad spectrum of people they do not fall into traditionally held views of man/woman

Everyone in the world is either a man or a woman (excluding a teeny portion of the population who are intersex due to developmental disorder). BECAUSE BIOLOGY.

"Traditionally held" STEREOTYPES of what is a man/woman are simply being reinforced by identify politics. Which helps exactly no one.

(Sorry - I couldn't help the capitals)

Traumatized female rape victims should, however, not be compelled to accept counselling from be-penised people, and not be dismissed as 'transphobes' if they exercise that choice.

This is a far cry from what shelter staff are being told, which is to centre the TW, "educate" the female service user that TWAW, and expel the female service user if she does not comply. Someone posted a photo of whiteboard of a training session in FWR that detailed this, if the photo poster sees my post, please add that pic to this thread as I think we're going to get "pics or it didn't happen" from some PPs.

If the woman doesn't want to talk to the person she initially talks to she can hang up.

It took a lot of courage for me to make that call and if a male voice had answered I would not have phoned back and would likely have stepped in front of the next non-stop train through my local station. Just because you would call back, doesn't mean we all would.

To PP who have said "they already offer service to men and boys": that's not the same as hiring men or having male volunteers. Their recruitment page talks only about women working with them. Stop speculating and stop accusing us of speculating[1]: it's clear that we are the ones who have read the site, not you.

[1] Remember that when dealing with the kind of narcissist who will retraumatise a rape victim for validation, every accusation is an admission. When they accuse us of speculating, it's because they are. When they accuse us of FUD, it's because they're spreading fear uncertainty and doubt.

It keeps returning to the same starting point. If TWAW you can then not at the same time say TW will only deal with TW. Once you bypass single sex exemptions it is then difficult to run the service without discrimination and as shown in Canada and the US leading to the service provider facing disciplinary or pressure from activists.

If males answering the phones was an issue for local females, they would have already spoke out.

In the current climate, when lesbians who don't want dick are called "terf" "bigot" "transphobe", you come here and say that with a straight face? You expect us to believe that? No, what happens is that women silently self-exclude and suffer untreated PTSD.

Perhaps if Devon Rape Crisis would have the decency to respond to the hundreds of comments on social media then we may get some clarity on this. They appear to be going for the 'la la la can't hear you' method of interaction. There is no such thing as a 'self-identified' woman.

Men who identify as women are not women, and should have no place in front-line services for women who have been sexually assaulted. Any hint (as in seeing this ad for instance) that they may come into contact with a male when accessing the service will put a lot of women off. I centre the safety and support of those women over the validation of a man's feelings.

Hear hear, MrsSnippy

Everyone in the world is either a man or a woman (excluding a teeny portion of the population who are intersex due to developmental disorder). BECAUSE BIOLOGY.

"Traditionally held" STEREOTYPES of what is a man/woman are simply being reinforced by identify politics. Which helps exactly no one.

If TWAW you can then not at the same time say TW will only deal with TW. Once you bypass single sex exemptions it is then difficult to run the service without discrimination and as shown in Canada and the US leading to the service provider facing disciplinary or pressure from activists.

These wonderful posts need highlighting as they sum things up nicely.

Toorah that’s not strictly true, the categories that I’ve stated can consist of either biological men or women but who don’t identify as either or identify as both (fluidly).

The language used is encompassing in order to include the many subcategories of gender (feminine-masculine and everything in between. Regardless of wether you’d rather gender didn’t exist, the fact is that it does and society is subject to it) so as to include and invite volunteers to meet the needs of demographics.

Regardless of wether you’d rather gender didn’t exist, the fact is that it does and society is subject to it) so as to include and invite volunteers to meet the needs of demographics.

There are 75 different official genders, though?

It seems to me that if they were looking for trans volunteers to work with trans clients they would have asked for women, TW and TM. They didn’t.

Of course trans people should have access to services but not at the detriment of women. There needs to be a dedicated helpline for women with only female volunteers and women should only be offered female counsellors. No traumatised woman or girl (remember, they offer services to girls as young as 13) should be in a position where the onus is on her to say “no”.

Regardless of wether you’d rather gender didn’t exist, the fact is that it does and society is subject to it) so as to include and invite volunteers to meet the needs of demographics.

Yet apparently not the demographic of post-rape phallophobic women.

There are 75 different official genders, though?

And I don't care which one my rape crisis counsellor is, as long as they were born with a vulva.

post-rape phallophobic women

Which tbh isn't great terminology but I can't find better. "Phobia" strictly refers to an irrational fear. There's nothing irrational about fearing rape weapons and their owners after being raped.

the categories that I’ve stated can consist of either biological men or women but who don’t identify as either or identify as both (fluidly)

Once again I refer you to biology.

Being a man or a woman is not a matter of how you identify. You can not identify in or out of your biological state.

"Gender" does indeed exist - as unhelpful and repressive stereotypes associated with biological sex.

The demographics who are struggling with the horror that is gender stereotypes do indeed need support - but not the kind of support that is proposed by the transgender ideology.

the fact is that it [gender] does [exist]

And varies by time and place, as explained by wacademia. Rape does not vary by time and place although attitudes towards it might, it is a sexed crime. The forced pregnancy that can follow rape does not vary by time and place, it is a sexed sequela, not a gendered one. Rape must tackled as the sexed crime that it is, not as a gendered crime.

No one has said that biological women aren’t going to be supported by whomever they choose to be supported by though.

It’s not an “either or” situation. It’s an inclusive rape charity seeking to support ALL people who have experienced sexual assault in the way that the individual feels most safe and supported, in order to do that they are seeking volunteers with varying life experiences. Why the fuck is that a problem to anyone?!!

I’ve not said anything about identifying outwith biological sex, so your point is invalid.

Yes, gender stereotypes are damaging. But they exist and to ignore that helps no one, particularly vulnerable groups (ie those whose life experiences are less represented by voluntary staff) who have suffered a sexual assault.

No traumatised woman or girl (remember, they offer services to girls as young as 13) should be in a position where the onus is on her to say “no”.

And no traumatised woman or girl should be in a position where the onus is on her to speak out and say "male-born rape counsellors are not appropriate for traumatised females". And yet here I am...

Are you advocating that men and anyone who does not comfortably identify as a woman should not have access to support after sexual assault/rape because it only happens to women?

Because that would be A) not true and B) fucking bonkers.

No person who has experienced sexual assault/rape should be advocating making seeking and receiving support harder for any victim/survivor, yet here I am....

@PinkyU No one has said that biological women aren’t going to be supported by whomever they choose to be supported by though.

With staff trained to prioritise TW over women, what woman or girl will feel safe asking for a female counselor?

I got incensed enough to search for that training whiteboard photo:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3574351-Rape-crisis-centre-staff-trained-to-ask-the-cis-guest-to-leave

No one has said that biological women aren’t going to be supported by whomever they choose to be supported by though

I think by "biological women" what you mean to write is WOMEN.

Because there are no women who are not biological women.

And it's a fucking problem because it is seeking to put men (never called "biological men" are they - funny that) into positions that women should be in.

Otherwise it would just be asking for women wouldn't it. Instead it is asking for men who think they are women.

How can you not see that this is all part of the age old story of penises trying to get to vulnerable women - and it all being facilitated by the age old method of telling women to JUST BE NICE.

All true ffffsssff