Self ID women being asked to volunteer in Devon Rape Crisis Centre *Triggering - rape*

[Theendofmyrope]

AIBU to think this is just fucking insane? Is this how it is going to be from now on? As the parent of a rape victim I feel beyond angry. Is no place safe for women now?

And no traumatised woman or girl should be in a position where the onus is on her to speak out and say "male-born rape counsellors are not appropriate for traumatised females".

Are you advocating that men and anyone who does not comfortably identify as a woman should not have access to support after sexual assault/rape because it only happens to women?

So hang on, you took "all COUNSELLORS should be female" and twisted that to "all SERVICE USERS should be female"? And you're accusing me of spreading the myth that it never happens to men. You've created a straw feminist there and outright lied about what I've said.

No person who has experienced sexual assault/rape should be advocating making seeking and receiving support harder for any victim/survivor, yet here I am....

As I said upthread: with narcissists, every accusation is an admission. You are the one making it harder for people to get support, by advocating for counselors to be mixed sex when plenty of women are telling you that doing so will harm them.

My pain fear and trauma are not raw materials for a transwoman's validation. It's 2019 and I'm having to fight for my right to be counseled by someone born with a vulva who has experienced girlhood.

Any critical thinking person knows not to gullibly and naively believe random photos posted on the internet, or at least to view it with suspicion.

I choose to be exposed to both sides of an issue as opposed to existing in an echo chamber believing everything that feeds by bias.

All well and good PinkyU.

Still doesn't mean that women can have penises.

pinky how can you guarantee that biological women see only biological women. If TW only help/advise TW then they are being put in a box that some do not want to be in. You are not treating them as a woman. Goes against TWAW

FFS the charity are seeking people who have specific life experiences to support victims/survivors of sexual assault/rape who have similar life experiences. Why the fuck is that a problem to you?

No you’re not. You have the right to be counselled by a person of your choosing with whom you feel safe and comfortable.

Why shouldn’t another person receive that at no cost to you?

Your grief and trauma do not trump that of any other person regardless of their genitals or gender.

All counsellors should not be women, because not all victims/survivors of sexual assault/rape are women.

@relizeliz You're naive if you think women cant perform acts of penetration using alternative means, resulting in rape.

Please come to my garden so you can talk your grade A horseshit over my roses. Assault by penetration is defined in section two of the Sexual Offences Act 2003. It is a separate offence from rape but carries the same sentence.

So Devon Rape Crises center is looking for self identifying women. Click on the link and it says they are looking for women volunteers for the following:
Devon RCSAS is a voluntary organisation that offers a range of free and confidential specialist support services to women (aged 13 years and above) in Devon who have experienced rape or sexual violence.

So they are looking for women to support women. Not transwomen to support transwomen or men to support men. Then why explicitly say 'self identifying'?

FFS where have I said the contrary?

I get that this is the war cry but it has no context to the points I’ve made and quite frankly seems immature and goady, I have the time and patience for neither.

Because they have a diverse demographic of service users they support and so are seeking volunteers to meet those needs, in much the same way as they also specify looking for volunteers of BAME/ethni minority in other ads.

PinkyU

No they're not. They are seeking men who identify as women.

They could have said trans women. But they did not.

They have used terminology which is deeply misognystic and at the heart of a moment with the aim of removing women's boundaries and rights to say no.

Whether or not you're aware of what you're doing - all that you're doing is a classic bullying technique of deliberately misunderstanding someone's position to then paint them as somehow intolerant or unkind.

As I said, there's nothing new here.

I have no problem whatsoever with men who think they are women being provided with specific services that are tailored to support their unique needs. But is it is quite clear both by the language used and the context of the broader transgender ideological push into women's single sex spaces that this is not what is going on here.

PinkyU

You have said the contrary where you've used the reference "biological woman".

BD67th do you honestly think that the semantics around sexual assault mitigates the effect of the assault?

A 13 year old boy forcibly penetrated by the fingers of an adult can’t identify as being raped because they’re male, the effect and impact are the same. You come across as wanting to distinguish the two as though that has some importance.

All counsellors should not be women, because not all victims/survivors of sexual assault/rape are women.

When a woman phones Rape Crisis, the call should be answered by a woman. I said upthread that TW need specific services and it would absolutely be appropriate for TW to set up their own service, as women did when we set up Rape Crisis. TW could meet the specific needs of TW. I would imagine that the combination of rape trauma and gender dysphoria will cause psychological sequelae that a woman will not face. TW won't face pregnancy so won't need counselling surrounding post-rape abortion. Cross-sex rape and same-sex rape have differing physical consequences and have different social connotations.

Let's reframe what I said about women reasonably expecting the call.to be answered by a woman. TW should be able to call a number and know that the counselor answering is a trained TW. This seems reasonable to me. For that to work, you need to have a dedicated phone line. Even if all the counsellors are in a big office together, the phone numbers must be separate so that callers speak to who they need to speak to. Ideally, TW would have their own service, so that they have agency as to how they run it.

And I can see that your using traditional techniques of crying “bullying” when another person’s opinion falls outwith your own. Of using semantics. Of patronising.

That’s fine, I have no issue with a lack of sophistication around debate (see what I did there).

If this centre caters to both trans and natal females, why is arguing that it should be staffed solely by women any different from arguing that it should be staffed solely by trans women?

BD67th do you honestly think that the semantics around sexual assault mitigates the effect of the assault?

I'm quoting the law.

A 13 year old boy forcibly penetrated by the fingers of an adult can’t identify as being raped because they’re male,

No, you are also spouting horseshit and I strongly suspect that you are a MRA based on the pattern of word-twisting that you are using. The boy has not been raped because his assailant did not use his penis, not because the boy is male.

the effect and impact are the same.

Are they? Will that boy fear pregnancy? Will he worry that he might contract HIV from his attacker ejaculating into his anus? To observe that physical reality is not to deny the boy's psychological trauma btw.

You come across as wanting to distinguish the two as though that has some importance

I have already noted that assault by penetration is a crime with the same sentencing options as rape. The boy would have been assaulted by penetration, as such he would have the same right to police reporting and support as any other survivor. The difference between the two is important: only rape can leave a victim pregnant or leave ejaculate inside the victim to pass on STIs.

PinkyU

Because they have a diverse demographic of service users they support and so are seeking volunteers to meet those needs, in much the same way as they also specify looking for volunteers of BAME/ethni minority in other ads.

Not in this case. They are looking for volunteers to support women. So then you look for women, not men who identify as women. But the words 'self identify' make it very clear they are inviting men who identify as women, to apply. Or perverts who identify as men who identify as women.

if it is staffed solely by females - i.e. imagine being a battered man and calling up to find a woman answering the phone.

I'm a male rape victim, like fuck I'd want to call a rape helpline service and have a man answer the phone.

Oh, so they provide rape counselling services to male victims as well?

Good luck with this one. They literally don't exist.

The centre caters to anyone who has experienced sexual assault/rape, in order to do so effectively they seek to employ different demographics to meet the demographics of its service users.

They want their volunteers to be representative of the people they support and so aim to have women, men, different races, cultures, religions, sexual orientations, abilities, ages, socioeconomic and gender groups.

It can’t be a “we only employ women volunteers” because they don’t only support women who have experienced sexual assault. I’m really staggered that anyone would not be ok with that.

The centre provide support to victims/survivors of sexual assault/rape. That can be anyone, the centre seek to have a representative staff to meet the needs of its service users.

ShortCircuit

If this centre caters to both trans and natal females, why is arguing that it should be staffed solely by women any different from arguing that it should be staffed solely by trans women?

I don't think transwomen and men would want to talk to women, so I would assume male and transwomen volunteers were available as well. If the center caters for them, which they don't say they do. They cater for women and
We also provide a more limited range of support to young men

So again, why ask for self identifying women, so transwomen, when you don't offer services for them? Unless you were planning on letting those volunteers answer the phone to women.

a 13 year old boy forcibly penetrated by the fingers of an adult can’t identify as being raped because they’re male,

@PinkyU One of my earlier posts to this thread, before I interacted with uou, I mentioned "cross-sex rape" and "same-sex rape". How could I mention same-sex rape if I thought that men and boys could not be raped? Your word twisting is very obvious.