Self ID women being asked to volunteer in Devon Rape Crisis Centre *Triggering - rape*

[Theendofmyrope]

AIBU to think this is just fucking insane? Is this how it is going to be from now on? As the parent of a rape victim I feel beyond angry. Is no place safe for women now?

My concern is that adding another layer of impossible-to-administer process (forms and questions about identity and categories of women) to a service already stretched to breaking point is highly unlikely to happen.

What is very likely to happen is that the service will operate on the basis of TWAW. Simpler to administer, no nightmare GDPR and data sharing problems, less opportunities for legal challenge (see Vancouver) and highly likely meet requirement of specific funders (see multiple policies on inclusive practice as condition of funding being rolled out everywhere).

So we’re back to square one again. TWAW for all and every role and for all and every client. No exceptions.

Or sex specific service that excludes males.

Which is it?

@DifficultPifcultLemonDifficult

people who work at the rape crisis centres will be better placed than me to decide how service users are assessed.

I think you hit the nail on the head here.

So we’re back to square one again. TWAW for all and every role and for all and every client. No exceptions.

Or sex specific service that excludes males.

@HumberElla I really think the here is a middle ground that Rape Crisis Centres are currently navigating. Taking on trans volunteers could well Be part of this m.

Trans women are raped and murdered every day. They are entitled to care, and if another trans person is there they can talk and open up more.

Could you expand on what a middle ground is re sex specific service Capt ?

I feel like we’re going round in circles here. The issues with taking on trans volunteers and how that would be managed in practice in a women’s service (unless TWAW) is exactly the issue.

@humberella, I am not going to attempt to give a comprehensive breakdown of how a rape crisis centre should be managed. You would be better asking people
Who currently manages the services.

But, I would suggest that trans clients could Be offered the opportunity to work with a trans counsellor if they found it useful. Maybe other clients could be asked if they would mind this if it appeared that the trans counsellor fitted well with them for other reasons. Maybe a trans volunteer could work with the service in other work that goes on at rape crisis centres, as it’s not all counselling (fundraising, work on the website, admin etc).

This discussion has quickly become about TWAW. But I don’t think the rape crisis centre in question has made such a statement. Nor would I expect them to involve themselves in such a debate. It’s about getting help to vulnerable traumatised people as sensitively as possible, what exactly people feel constitutes a Man or a women Really that important here.

There’s some serious gaslighting going on here. Totally avoiding the cases being raised which highlights the issues of TWAW. The staff know what they’re doing, that will never happen, is it really a problem if a male deals with female rape victims. How did Karen White happen, or Yaniv, or Detroit’s shocking situation, or the Vancouver RCC losing funding and being dragged through courts for years by a TW who didn’t take being turned down as a volunteer councilor well. It is happening, it will happen. These orgs have no clue what they are doing and how to handle the trans issues - they are winging it.

Insensitivity goes both ways.

How about being sensitive to me

Lemon gloating they got adequate provision recently in a refuge, while I cannot is pretty fucking insensitive

I just got verbally abused by a drunk. I'm leaving this campground. Not sure where I'll go now.

The whole transgender thing is appalling. Common sense and science gone out of the window.

They make it clear in other tweets that only women are volunteers, they specify “female” volunteers and site the Equality Act provision. Just wonder how why they are suddenly using this language “self identified women”

Basically anyone who is a rape victim needs support. I know boys and men who were raped in the past . Male victims absolutely need support.
The thing is, all these services -refuges, rape crisis etc were set up at great effort by women for women.
There was hardly government departments desperate to throw money at them...women persevered, took victims into their own homes, raised awareness and money at the grassroots level FOR YEARS.
If men want to do the same, for men, noone is stopping them...

The problem is the term self identified woman. That can mean anything from a trans woman who has legally changed their gender and lives full time as a woman (whatever that means) to the non binary male who has no intention of going through the legal route or physically transitioning to Eddy fucking Izard who thinks wearing a dress is enough to allow himself access to women's spaces.

Perhaps the trans community should take responsibility for the lack of clarity on what trans means.

Maybe best to campaign for trans specific services.

@TimeWastingButFun

I had to google self ID women, I guess you mean trans?. Surely the volunteers are checked and monitored though? Maybe it should be more about the qualities of the volunteer, and if they have a helpful, kind and caring person to get them through their ordeal then does it matter what sex/age/colour/whatever they are? In a way if it was a really supportive male then it might help to get over the hurdle that it isn't all men that do these vile things but just a small minority

Are you really that fucking naive? Women have stated quite clearly that they want a woman only service to help after rape or sexual assault. Forcing them to have a male counsellor to teach them a lesson that not all men are bad is not going to work. It's all about feeling safe, a woman who has been harmed by a man often feels very scared around other men.

Trans women are raped and murdered every day. They are entitled to care, and if another trans person is there they can talk and open up more.

Nobody disagrees. But they shouldn’t have a service for transwomen running in the same place as a service for women only.

Yaniv isn’t the Canadian example that needs to be raised on this thread.

Instead the women’s rape crisis centre that has been sued by a transwoman for years and almost shut down (or has been now, can’t remember) - because they only wanted natal women to work at their particular centre because of the way that their particular centre operated. There were other rape crisis centres nearby for men and transwomen so they would not be there to work with transwomen - they specifically wanted to work with natal women that had been raped and didn’t want to help at the other centres where they could help men or transwomen.

It certainly led to a reduction in the quality of services for women as they had to spend much of their income on fighting the legal battle.

I’m not fully awake at the moment and only on my phone so don’t have the appropriate references (I’m 60% sure it was in Montreal but wouldn’t be surprised if it was elsewhere) but maybe somebody more knowledgable could provide the info to show how detrimental this has been at least in one Canadian city!

Lemon gloating they got adequate provision recently in a refuge, while I cannot is pretty fucking insensitive

I understand that you're going through a very difficult time, but I certainly didn't gloat, nor was I insensitive.

Interesting example here from Vancouver.

Interestingly, in 2007, that same centre won a long court battle over their refusal to let a transwoman volunteer there.

People who work at the rape crisis centres will be better placed than me to decide how service users are assessed.

The justice system has failed vulnerable women in this respect (e.g. Karen White).

On what grounds will the staff in a rape crisis centre be better able to make such decisions?

The issue here is that this is being advertised very openly online and will inevitably put off women from using the service.

Would you , as a rape victim, make contact with a service you thought might make you talk to a man about your rape?

Absolutely provide services for Transwomen and transmen. But do not try to mix these services. It is a zero sum game where everyone loses out for the sake of tick boxes.

What is the actual point of a rape crisis centre that cannot provide rape victims with a safe space? Letting anyone self-id into a vulnerable group completely destroys the gate keeping thus making the space an open one and NOT a safe one.

Centres will close of women won’t use them and the only clients are trans women - who the trans women who have chosen to work for probably done really want to target anyway.

Nobody has any issue with transwomen supporting other transwomen, do they? I certainly don't and there's also no denying that transwomen experience sexual violence. They deserve support and a service which caters to their needs.

But the advert is very unclear about if this is what the centre intends to provide.

Transwomen are raped and murdered everyday.
No they’re not, that’s an outright lie, you need to check your reference before peddling such twaddle.
The average rate of transmurders in the U.K. is approx1 per year (www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk) compare that with two per week for women ( www.refuge.org.uk/our-work/forms-of-violence-and-abuse/domestic-violence/domestic-violence-the-facts/)
1 per year vs 2 per week for murders - and you are on this forum wanting to deny women access to safe, non triggering single sex provisions. Shame on you.

Women are murdered every day. Trans women are trans women. And with murder rates you also need to consider location and career/activities engaged. Check your terminology and don’t parrot incorrect stats.

relizeliz

Anyone can commit rape, a penis is not a pre-requisite and I'm concerned if this is your narrow definition

Our "narrow definition" happens to be the one shared by English law, specifically Section 1 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, in which A rapes B if A penetrates B with A's penis. Be aware that he/him/his pronouns refer to both sexes in English legislation.

Earlier this year, whilst traumatised and suicidal, I was frightened to phone my local Rape Crisis in case a male voice answered the phone. Luckily, my local RC is still applying the EA2010 single-sex exemptions when recruiting, even though they support transwomen as victim-survivors. (This is a reasonable compromise until trans people get their own trans-specific services organised.) Now the women of Devon face that fear, with strong evidence in the form of the linked advert that a male voice will answer that phone fhree evenings a month.

Had I been in Devon when I needed to call, i'd be dead by now from suicide.

To copy your "debating" style, SUICIDAL FEMALES WHO NEED TO TALK TO ANOTHER FEMALE ARE WOMEN, #NODEBATE.