To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

A neighbours nanny used to work at a nursery and said they would all lie to parents about them having been fine, even if they hadn't been, so as not to upset the parent. She also said she didn't like being with the older children as they were more tiring, but liked the baby room as loves cuddling babies. So in that sense she was probably good at caring for the babies as she enjoyed it.

Interestingly a parent with a similar age DC said that mine will be developmentally behind due to him not going to full time nursery. I was speechless, but who knows. As a SAHM my DS only goes to preschool a few hours each week. It's interesting because they were singing all the praises of how educational and social full time nursery is. Apparently they do 2 activities a day with them. Is that good or not ? A full day is 7.30-6pm.

@Drabarni - you can be an involved parent and use full time childcare. DT’s nursery was brilliant, we were very grateful for the staff helping give our DT’s an additional good start in life. It’s not a replacement for good parenting, it’s an addition.

I hope that you rang the nursery manager and reported what you had seen then, @mistlewoeandwhine.

I tried a large nursery for a few sessions before binning it. Frankly horrified. I sat there all morning as dd distressed there were kids there even more distressed but when the parents collected the staff lied about it.

@aliteralAIBUforonce you clearly can't read as that's not written anywhere. I honestly don't know what's wrong with you other than trolling through boredom.

Gosh it’s lucky my children came through nursery unscathed and developed into wonderful adults, given the horror stories on here of lying nursery workers treating children like crap.

And how lucky for me that I’ve had a great career (rather than spending my time hanging out in Costa spying on the local childcare workers)

Parker

Of course I totally agree you can do both, but it is a replacement as the parent isn't there. But of course parents parent their children when they are there whether they work or not.

I have nothing against good childcare and I know it exists, but to think that some parents don't kid themselves is ridiculous, because they do.

My own gd goes to nursery a morning a week, she is 10 months old.
She has a little friend already and is very sociable, she does cry but soon settles and I can see that it will be beneficial to her. I have no idea as to the quality but like other parents I trust they did their homework and dil used to be a childcare worker L3

I was a SAHP in NYC for two years, and I wouldn’t trust my dogs with most of the nannies I saw.

Our building had a playroom and one nanny used to put up her feet, eat crisps (in a no-food room) and text on her phone the entire time. The kid she was in charge of was about two.

Conversely, the good nannies were worth their weight in gold. I used to chat to a lovely woman from Brazil, who was in charge of twin girls who were premature, had health issues, and were on liquids only until they were eighteen months. She had read all she could about their health conditions in order to take the best possible care of the girls, and she was so nurturing and professional.

OP definitely a troll. I decided this when they suggested we all take our kids to work with us and sing to them if they start to get bored. Er... wtf? I'm a teacher, that would go down well

My kids didn’t do any childcare and my son started school a lot more confident and secure than the kids who’d been to preschool.
Well there's a huge generalisation!!!

I'm a childminder and I'm so sorry to hear you had a bad experience with one as a child. I think the huge problem in the UK is that people who teach and look after young children are not respected (and therefore are underpaid and the vicious circle continues). In other countries - Finland a good example Early Years staff are mostly degree educated or highly qualified. I myself am undertaking a Masters and other qualifications - I have to do another job on the side though to afford this.

Ps I don't sit in Costa all day. If you have experience of one bad doctor do you say all doctors are rubbish? Reading some of the comments makes me sad. There are some really amazing Early Years professionals and it confirms the lack of respect the industry receives. I acknowledge that there are lots of people who shouldn't be in the profession but how are we to attract the best people when we are seen as universally rubbish. I'm reading The a British Betrayal of Childhood right now by Al Aynsley Green and it's a good starting point for anyone wishing to read up on the subject

Of course there are awful childminders and nurseries. There are awful parents, too. Awfulness exists in all walks of life. Wonderfulness does, too. As for all the claims of "well adjusted" children - reading the comments on social forums and looking at the state of the world, I don't think "well adjusted" means as much as people who use the term seem to want to imply. It definitely doesn't seem to mean unselfish, considerate, thoughtful, kind, helpful, tactful etc. You can be well adjusted and pretty horrible and self-centred, I reckon; and how much of this is the result of your upbringing and how much genetic?

So, what do people think they mean by well adjusted? Not diagnosed with a mental illness? Able to conform to social norms when under scrutiny or when necessary to get your own way (but who cares when you think you can get away with it)? Is not being "well adjusted" the only possible negative result of your upbringing?

I don’t think op is s troll. There are questions to be asked about institutional childcare for very young children. It’s unsayable as people get extremely defensive understandably. I am seeing anecdotally that kids seem much less secure these days compared to my own childhood. Dds peer group (10 year olds all nice middle class families) many twitchy anxious and neurotic in a way my similar peer group just weren’t. I’ve joined the dots in my head but would never voice outloud except anonymously. Just my opinion anyway.

I am seeing anecdotally that kids seem much less secure these days compared to my own childhood. Dds peer group (10 year olds all nice middle class families) many twitchy anxious and neurotic in a way my similar peer group just weren’t. I’ve joined the dots in my head but would never voice outloud except anonymously. Just my opinion anyway.

I think the problem with this kind of generalisation is that it's difficult to determine whether children were equally anxious or maladjusted in previous generations, but just not allowed to express it, or have it registered/acted on/indulged by their parents.

I'm mid-40s and I was simply left to get on with things by my parents who simply didn't have the time, emotional vocabulary or the will to get involved with their young child's fears and problems. They weren't abusive, but they didn't know any different. They were focused on putting food on the table, and what their children were anxious about just didn't factor for them as other than a vague annoyance we weren't coping, and a fear of being seen as 'being above themselves' if they went to the school to complain about a teacher bullying one of us -- they would never have dreamed of doing that. We were on our own.

Whereas I think now that the average parent would listen to their child's worries and act to deal with them in ways that just wouldn't have occurred to my parents. Today's children feel able to express their worries, so those anxieties are more 'visible', but I'm not convinced they weren't there in the past.

I think in all generations there were probably DC that thrived with the parenting/childcare of the day, and those that didn't.
My mum and uncle used to be sent to nuns at the seaside for a month every winter for their lungs from about age 2 onwards. (1950s/60s Italy) DM loved it and has lots of happy memories, my uncle hated it.

@MsTSwift I agree the discussion raised has had some important and valid points and I have found reading it very interesting (although as a mum who had children in nursery, it's a hard one to read). Out of interest would children who stay with grandparents also be in that bracket of causing issues later on? Or are grandparents considered just as nurturing and loving as parents are for everyday care?

Having said that...
seriously the idea of taking children with you, to work, and singing at them.... that has to set off alarm bells????? It's just ludicrous.

Singing to children in the workplace, I must have missed that bit.

OP are you for real?

We made a conscious decision not to involve MIL in childcare and to minimise ds' contact with her. And this was 15 years before dh realised/remembered the full extent of her emotional and physical abuse.

We almost all make the best choices for our children with the circumstances we face.

Excellent post Idaho.

Lauriemarlow- while there is an interesting debate to be had on this important subject, the OP is best ignored. She’s just talking shit (and definitely shit stirring too)

I agree with pp that there is of course variation in standards of childcare just as there is with parenting, or with ‘free’ childcare by relatives.

One point that’s been made is that’s parents who’ve used childcare are reluctant to acknowledge if there are any downsides to it and are very defensive. But surely that’s a fairly instinctive response for all humans... that they want to feel the decisions they’ve made are the ‘right’ ones. So you can apply that argument to parents who haven’t used childcare too. Eg: if you’ve given up work to be a SAHP and avoid using childcare, you probably want to feel you’re getting some ‘payback’ for the sacrifice you’ve made. You may want to convince yourself that your children are going to be happier/more secure/ do better at school than if you hadn’t been a SAHP.

I also think it’s an unfortunate natural tendency for people to think in simplistic terms of a certain way being ‘right’ - ie it’s either ‘right’ for your family to have a SAHP or it’s ‘right’ to have WOHP. Truth is, the children may be absolutely fine either way. I was a WOHM but I’m pretty sure my kids would have been fine if I’d stayed home too. Doesn’t have to be Either/or

And of course, the most important thing to remember is that we can all only comment on our own experiences and our own children. So, while my own children thrived and enjoyed the 3 days they spent at nursery, I completely accept that other people’s children might not have done. They might have been better suited to a different form of childcare - cm or nanny - or indeed no childcare at all. Seems to me too many people think that because something has/ hasn’t worked for them, other people therefore should/ shouldn’t do it.
Such a narrow way of thinking.

Here it is

Batshit crazy

Some of this is really quite upsetting reading. I'm glad I didn't read it before my daughter started at her nursery or I'd probably have talked myself out of sending her. As it was, she has always been very happy there. She was a very early talker and able to articulate things clearly at an early age so would come home aged 3 and tell us about who had an accident and cried and got made a fuss of, who screamed when their mummy left and how they got cuddles, what games they played that day, conversations she's had with her teachers etc. I have also turned up to pick her up at different times due to varying finish times at work and had to go out to the garden to find her playing with her friends and several of the staff members all looking to be having fun. Her key worker clearly loves her to bits and they are very close. We've also had a family bereavement and they've been fantastic at helping her through this - not just her key worker.

It hasn't been entirely free of issues (although not actually caused by the staff) but these were all resolved very sensibly. Our experience of nursery has been extremely positive and it's certainly made me feel a lot happier/less guilty about having to go back to work.

Again, had anyone reported me for being a troll yet?

And no, nobody has suggested that people take babies into unsuitable environments. There are already people (often self employed l) people who do work around very small babies like that. It's something we could make more use of where appropriate.

@pinkunicornsparkles

The post you have very helpfully screenshotted, was in response to another poster stating that women working alongside their babies in previous times, would not have sung to them.

Of course they would have done. That is not a suggestion that I sit at my desk doing so.

You may wish to work on your comprehension?

This thread is a prime example of shoot the messenger, it really is.