To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

I am going to agree with you here. But in a society now where most households need two working parents childcare is essential for most. My daughter hated nursery started at 10 months old. I stuck it out for a year thinking it was attachment issues. Then moved her too one that had a fantastic reputation and the staff were alot more involved with the kids and were more nurturing. She still hated it. When started school we got a childminder. She loved her! Loved going there she only had my daughter and her own daughter and she never wanted too leave. But the childminder cared for her in a way the nursery didn't and she had alot of time for her she was always making things and playing and gave her a cuddle if she needed it. I think its the lack of one on one time. Even nappy changing was like a conveyer and they were chucked back in the playroom. I wouldn't use one again but that is just my opinion and my child. They are all different

But can you not see why people have reacted that way? You have basically suggested that we are all leaving our children in sub-par childcare and that quite clearly isnt the case. Lots have agreed with you that pay needs to be improved.

Any more crimes I have committed?

Not listening to opinions other than your own?

Any more crimes I have committed?

Throwing around vague and misinformed ideas about how things were done 'in the past' and adding that you're an academic as if that gives extra weight to your misconceptions?

No, people have made that jump themselves. Probably based on their own doubts. Protest too much etc.

I think that more of us are leaving our kids in crap childcare than we realise. The providers put on a great show when we're there- the reality may be somewhat different.

Plenty of people have agreed- including some childcare workers which is interesting.

@NewAccount270219

Ok, how were things done in the preindustrial past in Western Europe?

Do you know OP if you’re concerned about your child having future mental health issues due to nursery I suggest you look a little closer to home. Unkind, disingenuous, nasty minded parents tend to have that effect on their kids. Your agenda has been crystal clear from the very start of this thread: to put down others. Poor show op.

nasty?

Didn't someone once say that once your opponent has lost the argument, they make it personal? It's the only ammunition they have left...

I stand by what I have said: childcare options need to improve. We need to face that.

I am calling you out for what you are. Yes you are nasty minded. You continue to be so with your silly grinning faces and irrelevant quotes. You’ve not won this argument why would you think you have?

OP, what do you think parents with no family to help should do? Not have children?

Whilst for many, work and childcare is an essential way of surviving that certainly isn’t always the case. It’s hugely complex and in part due to women not wanting to be primary child carers. People do have higher expectations of holidays and lifestyle choices and work to achieve those. More single parent households also mean more single working mothers - for survival.
Unfortunately that is less than ideal for an infant. We can persuade ourselves there’s no detriment but that’s not the truth. The truth is often unpalatable so we argue black is green against the evidence.
Most child care workers are low paid, often with low academic achievements and many nurseries are dull places, at best. They are institutional care. Higher pay would cost the parents more so would not be popular generally.
There is mitigation in not sending tiny babies to nursery care, in reducing the hours each session and the number of sessions and choosing a more personalised nursery. There are also some who have no choice. There may be advantages in toddlers learning rules, being ignored occasionally and being but one of many. I can’t see any advantage for babies except a less resentful mother. Then if a parent is going to resent raising her children it leads to other questions about motivation.
How can it possibly be better for a baby to be cared for from before breakfast until after supper by an eighteen year old with other babies to manage too? Uncomfortable truths cause the most anger, perhaps?

www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/200704/daycare-raising-baby

www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fped.2018.00179/full

The problem is in the judgypants title.

We are not deluding ourselves over childcare . Some people might be though - I accept that. But some people have had positive experiences that have resulted in happy, confident offspring.

There is also the very practical point that has been made by some that it is the "one day a week" that is the problem for your ds and explaining why - even if he was at a brilliant nursery.

Not even going to start to go into some of the rest of the comments.

I agree, OP. But as others have said, it's not a popular opinion. The whole school / childcare system needs a massive shake up. Ofsted reports mean nothing when you're considering the quality of relationships between the children and carers.

OP your use of opponent makes it clear you’re just after a fight.

What’s really bothering me though is why you won’t explain why you won’t move your child into a more suitable environment? You seem very out of tune with his needs.

You need to consider that it’s not just that all childcare is substandard, but that not alll settings suit all children and that seems to be what you refuse to address

@Pamplemousecat

I'm silly as well as nasty? I'm rather proud to be a 'Nasty Woman' btw

(Google it)

[santa]

While I am quite happy for you to air your opinions OP why in AIBU? You obviously think you are right and anyone disagreeing with you is "deluding" themselves. Why put it as a question when you really feel it's a statement?

I think it’s very common for those who have never seen good childcare settings to assume they don’t exist.

There is enormous variation. I’m always surprised at parents who don’t investigate all the options thoroughly, consider a variety of setting and set ups and/or rely on blunt instruments like ofsted ratings.

why you won’t explain why you won’t move your child into a more suitable environment? You seem very out of tune with his needs.

I agree with this. I’d never leave my child somewhere they weren’t happy.

You say your little boy has been going to Nursery since he was 11 months old . Unsure how old he is now but
if he’s not actively unhappy but used to the one day a week I don’t think any permanent harm is coming to him . Additionally you don’t see the transformation that offer comes over children when the time Mummy has to leave is over . I too have seen staff from Nurseries with their charges in places such as play gyms - to be honest they have been as good if not better than a lot of Mums who take the chance to read or catch up on texting . Nothing wrong there either as long as Mum keeps one eye open . (My own Mum used to talk about the occasional few minutes of benign neglect being character building. )None of the children seemed to have been upset by this either but interacted with other children . I personally don’t take my eyes off my DC and join him on a lot of the attractions . He’s three but goes to a great Nursery three times a week . As for a long term MH problem for children in general in future I think lack of socialisation with a peer group would also be a factor in that . Most Mums - usually not Dads - are torn with angst at having to leave their child - sometimes a whole week not for one day ........ you raise a good point but it does pile on the guilt many other working Mums feel about the necessity to entrust others for longer periods of time to care for their child .

Walkaround I take your point when you put it like that. My ds went two mornings a week due to ill health I had at the time, he was 2. He never seemed terribly keen and still mentions it now and again at 15! I hadn't realised that the two mornings were possibly the issue, as in not giving him enough time there to fit in/settle. As soon as my health recovered, I removed him, not least because they were late back from a day trip out, didn't contact the parents and I drove towards the venue to see ds trailing behind a group of twenty kids and three staff on a main road two miles from home.

I should add that with all this talk about seeing nursery staff disengaged on the street- my private day nursery don’t take the children out. They take the non walking babies for a walk a day in a huge pushchair- the staff do nothing more than push them around and point out the ducks etc- but due to ratios don’t take the older children Anywhere. It’s not uncommon either, so you’re not seeing a representative sample of nurseries on the street. In fact I’ll bet you’re seeing a pre school most of the time.

Our nursery is fantastic btw. Each room has its own garden and they have fresh air and exercise there

I’d never, ever chose a nursery without good outside space.

DS2s nursery in particular has a huge garden and they’re out there for most of the day in practically all weathers. They have the cutest little rainsuits for bad days.

aliteralAIBUforonce You say you think that early years standards need improving. But what you don't realise is that in the background, unseen, away from parents eyes is that staff (often in their own time) attend meetings, training, briefings, information sharing about providing the best outcomes for children. Constantly. Continous improvement is an expectation and constant scrutiny is a reality. Private nurseries, i.e. The owners, make a lot of money but the staff and a lot settings live and operate on nothing - dust, fresh air, peanuts. We are expected to provide the best care and education, to the highest standard, for the most precious people, with hardly any funding or financial stability whilst apparently being totally under appreciated, under valued and mistrusted by people like yourself. And being blamed for a potential future MH crisis. People are already leaving early years in droves because of this poor attitude, settings are having to close, so in 2-3 years time, there will be a massive childcare crisis, you won't be able to work, everyone will have to care for kids at home, problem sorted. Only it won't. All, and I mean all, children and families are continuously monitored by early years staff teams, if children are always at home, we can't keep on eye on them....

Just to be clear, I agree that early years standards need improving overall.

I also think the funding model isn’t fit for purpose and needs to be overhauled.

However, the best nurseries are there as examples of what the system can be with the right facilities, ethos and staff.

Any more crimes I have committed?

Not engaging with any of the practical advice that you have been offered to make your DS feel happier.