To think we're deluding ourselves over childcare?

[aliteralAIBUforonce]

I have a child who goes to nursery one day a week. I am very lucky that I can go part time and family have the rest of the time.

He's been doing this since he was 11 months and I hate it. He doesn't dislike it but he doesn't look forward to it either. A couple of times o have dropped him off then had to duck back into the cloak room and I've seen him looking rather lost and alone at the breakfast table. Breaks my heart.

A few times when I've been out and about I've seen staff from nurseries taking groups of kids out. They never, ever engage with the kids. Just each other. Bloody joyless experience by the looks of it. Those are the better ones too.

AIBU to think that we're going to see an epidemic of adolescent mental health problems is the next few years?

This is a shit was to bring up our kids.

It is up to the parent too seek out the best environment however, when the only choices are a bit shit, totally shit and quit work...

That's when regulation should step in.

I honestly don't know what legislation you want/are imagining? Your objection to all forms of paid childcare appear to be that it isn't like preindustrial Europe, that the carers don't love the children, and that there isn't constant, unfailing scrutiny of what's going on every minute. What legislation do you honestly think will fix that?

when the only choices are a bit shit, totally shit and quit work

I agree standards should be higher overall, but many people I know travel distances and even move for quality childcare.

Better staff ratios, better training, better pay...

The bit about love was not me and the discussion about preindustrial Europe was in ref to people claiming that large, scale institutional care for infants was somehow justified by the past.

Some bad care I've seen from childminders is one comes into toddler group puts sitting baby on the floor with a thump. He cries, she comes over and opens a box of snacks and puts in front of him. She doesn't speak to him. He then falls over from sitting position hitting his head on the hard floor and she ignores him. I sit him up, speak to him but he's crying loudly. We are in a small room, no music. I go over to where she is sitting and say X is crying as he hit his head. She looks up at me but says yeah, and then back at her phone. She didn't even look over. Child has by then fallen over again from sitting and is still crying. The lady the runs the group goes to try to comfort him, but the childminder just sits there for the whole session until singing at the end. So child wasn't interacted with by her or supervised eating for an hour, as group was 1 hour, 15 mins. She also had her son with her but he was much older around 2.5 so was more appropriate to play without supervision in the same room.

Childminder shouted at a girl calling her a nasty child, very loudly as she wouldn't sit still.

The lack of supervision also at soft play is dependant on age and ability as to whether it's an issue. To me an 18 month old should be constantly supervised. A 3-4 year should be checked in with and kept an eye on to ensure they are playing nicely, but not followed about. So when I said childminders sitting ignoring their mindees at soft play. I mean not coming over when children crying or falling or hitting others. Although a lot of parents can be like this too, I'm not a big fan of the soft play for this very reason.

Also I think that whilst normal life is good to experience with your parents or childminder the school runs can certainly drag out due to multiple schools and the number of kids.

I'm not convinced my DS' preschool is in anyway perfect, but I think she 2 onwards is more suitable age to be in some limited hours of childcare. Wasn't that the finding of a government study?

This is a discussion site . We are not all meant to agree.

I completely agree with you OP why is why we made sacrifices for us to be able to bring up our children ourselves. The first they had care from strangers was preschool and I have two confident well adjusted children. I feel it makes all the difference.

I think we can say there are good and bad childcare providers in the same way as there are good and bad stay at home parents. I don’t think it was luck my DC’s turned out well- it was down to good co-parenting by DH and I together with an excellent nursery they attended full time from six months.

My children are now adults. They were successful at school and university, are now settled in good jobs and relationships. Most importantly they emotionally secure and have lovely relationships with us, their parents. They all went to nursery so I’ve been able to have a successful career too.

Bet that pisses you off OP.

Finding this utterly shocking. Our nursery is an absolute godsend, the staff all clearly adore the children and vice versa. One of the carers who went on May leave recently asked for my number so we could arrange to meet up because she would miss my kids so much.
I’m so sad to think some nurseries are so bad you feel they will disturb children long-term

@AccioCats Bet that pisses you off OP. I actually think that's great, but not everyone is the same. So I think what OP is discussing is can it contribute to MH issues, because not everyone will suffer. If it was that your children grew up to have issues would you blame the nursery or yourselves or say that it was just one of those unfortunate things ?

A poster up thread mentioned the trips out at nursery are for the benefit of the staff not the children. This has to be a joke. I have worked with nursery staff for many years and I am well aware of the paperwork, the checks, the performance of getting ready, keeping a close eye on the children is a huge ton of work for the staff. It’s certainly not for their benefit!!!

Do the parents of children who dont go to nursery blame themselves?

A few thoughts...
parents are the best judge of their own children, and when anyone else is looking after them, the parents will pick up on how the child is thriving. Children aren’t just dumped in childcare at a few months old and picked up when they’re ready to go to school. So why not leave it to parents to judge whether their child is better with a childminder, or in a more social setting such as nursery.
Nurseries in particular have come in for a bit of a bashing from certain posters. They are one of the most expensive forms of childcare, usually more than a childminder, and you often have to pay full fees all year round. Therefore simply from a financial point of view parents are likely to be very picky, particularly if their child is younger and not eligible for free hours. At one point everything I earned went on nursery fees. I wouldn’t have done it if I hadn’t felt my children were actually getting a fantastic experience having 3 days at nursery and 2 with me at home.
If we’re going down the route of concern for parents who have little or no choice, save it for those who have no option other than using relatives as free childminders - and you only have to read MN to see the host of issues that can bring.

Finally, while I believe there’s a serious debate to be had about the costs of childcare, remuneration for childcare workers and variation in what people have available to them, it’s a debate for intelligent, well informed participants. Not a pointless swipe at parents by the OP who is very transparently a goady fucker.

Hear hear

And a goady fucker who seems to be completely uninterested in the fact that it's her decision making that caused this.
Apparently on one day a week, miracles should happen!!

I do wonder who's posts people are responding to here... sure as hell isn't mine.

I agree with what some other posters have said that by only attending nursery one day a week he is not getting the opportunity to bond with either staff or the other children.

My DS went to nursery 3 days per week from 6 months of age and after the first week or so he settled in fine and seemed happy. However if he had a whole week off due to a holiday he was always upset and clingy when I dropped him off. I would imagine if he only attended one day per week it would feel like this every day.

I always felt that DS benefited hugely from attending nursery, although I am also pleased I was able to work part time and so have time at home the other 2 days.

If we are talking about the impact on children if a lack of adult interaction I do wonder what the affect is of parents and other care givers who don't interact with the children in their care because they are constantly on their phones.

Absolutely @shinynewapple either on their phones or going out with friends all the time. ( I know a fair few who take every chance under the sun to go out on the town three to four nights per week and frequent weekends away) Just “ not present”. I also think ( which I don’t think OP is prepared to consider because it doesn’t suit her narrative) is that the rise in MH issues has a clear correlation to the rise in social media, use of phones, accessible porn etc. But yeah... let’s just blame nurseries for all of it.

I agree that phones are an issue too.

We think we're so much better than previous generations- replaced smoking and corporal punishment with a load of other shit

I hope for any child's sake that this is all a joke and you haven't got a child. Because if you project any of this onto a child I am almost certain they will be the one suffering with mental health issues not just you.

Haven't rtft, but I totally agree. So sad to think of babies without the security of their parents, in a setting like that. Could you use a childminder instead?

To add - I'm surprised at your vitreol for childminders. There are lots of ways to determine what they're like, you don't have to jump into a decision, get to know them, read reviews, speak to other parents, meet with her and watch the children in their care, watch her interactions with your child. I had a childminder as a child and she was like a grandparent. I have friends who are childminders, they're gentle and kind, and treat the children like their own. 1000x preferable than a nursery imo.

I didn't use childcare at all, as never found a good one. I believe that some are good, but do agree that some parents kid themselves for an easy life.
I know a few women who think the nursery their kids attend is brilliant. They always say how nice the staff are at drop off and pick up etc.
When accompanying students for their observations you see a different side.
They had no idea what the children had eaten and reported all sorts of rubbish to the parents.
I was shocked at how many were like this.
Anyone remember the dispatches programme many years ago about the state of nurseries when reporters went undercover. The parents who were interviewed said similar to what some have said here and were really shocked seeing the truth.
Use them if you want to but don't think they are a good enough replacement for an involved parent. As for phones and not talking to the kids, I see this all the time from nursery workers.
Yes, parents may do this but they aren't paying a full wage for decent care.

Bloody hell @Fowles94

I'm suggesting that we improve childcare and you're all but wishing MH problems on my child?

@Drabarni

That's sort of what I suspected. Nobody wants to hear it- shoot the messenger instead.

In Costa recently and the next table had two nursery workers and three kids at it ( wearing tabards with the nursery name on them). The adults had coffees and the kids had little drinks. The kids were ignored for the whole time except to have their photo taken and for one little boy to be periodically spoken to like dirt. No doubt the parents will be shown the photo and the boy’s mother told what a lovely “real life” experience he has had. The last we saw of them, they were going to Aldi and the child was lagging miserably behind with his key worker shouting at him and saying how annoying she was finding him.
I used to go to playgroups with my kids and saw some woeful childminders too ( although I also know some great ones).
The bottom line is that children can’t speak up for themselves and thus are vulnerable. If it is possible for them to be with a parent before the age of 3 then they absolutely should be although I understand that is not always possible.
My kids didn’t do any childcare and my son started school a lot more confident and secure than the kids who’d been to preschool. This idea that group care is superior to one to one makes me sad and I agree with the op that it isn’t how infants’ brains are wired for development. I just think here on MN no one is going to be the one to acknowledge that their child has been damaged by childcare although I have definitely seen many cases with my own eyes.