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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to dislike Extinction Rebellion

317 replies

Azeema · 26/08/2019 16:07

I live in farming village. We are getting in harvest.
But today on village green extinction rebellion has decided to have a party with drums, loud music and a megaphone. Green is right opposite care home for elderly.
I asked them, who are you protesting? There are no corporations here. Everyone is aware of environment as we grow your food.
They have been very rude, refusing to turn down noise despite disabled residents with migraines suffering.
They made me very upset talking about how England could grow own food and have lower footprint if not so many people (I’m an immigrant) looking at me like I should leave country.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/08/2019 15:00

I'm really sad that some pp's cant see the very obvious racism that OP experienced today

Actually I'd have thought the racism was perfectly obvious, but what you've got here is two competing "causes", and the nice, fashionable, shiny bright ER one will naturally appeal more to some. We see exactly the same on threads where such as feminism clashes with issues relating to other cultures, and the game of "pick a side" goes on

DoomsdayCult you've made some excellent points and posted great references to scientific evidence, but I think you'll need to accept a lot will fall on deaf ears. You see, it's just not as exciting as a nice demo, a bit of drum-banging and the chance to tell everyone else what to do. I had to smile at the assertion that ER don't claim the government's doing nothing, though, when supporters have posted on this very thread that it's only because of ER that anything's being done

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/08/2019 15:09

ER people … who go on beach clean- ups*

Ah yes, the beach clean ups. They had one of those at a pal's local beach - it was billed as the biggest one ever, except that it drizzled and only 4 people showed up

I'm sorry, but don't make me laugh about these people's much-vaunted "commitment". IME they're no different to so many others who'll be committed only when it suits

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 27/08/2019 15:23

Honestly QualCheckBot take a break. No need to be so personal. I made a very documented (National georaphic etc etc) point regarding the proliferation of wildlife within the exclusion zone. No need to be so bloody rude and personal.

QualCheckBot · 27/08/2019 15:31

CatherineofArgaon Honestly QualCheckBot take a break. No need to be so personal. I made a very documented (National georaphic etc etc) point regarding the proliferation of wildlife within the exclusion zone. No need to be so bloody rude and personal.

The quote I took is from the National Geographic article, the paragraph you mention discussing how wonderful the wildlife of Chernobyl is. Just one paragraph down...

QualCheckBot · 27/08/2019 15:31

Sorry, I've lost my punctuation in shock.

wigglybeezer · 27/08/2019 15:35

Well, I'm going to carry on "raging against the dying of the light" in various ways rather than just shrug and carry on regardless. It may be a complete waste of time it may not, I won't know for a while, but I'm not going to just sit at home sneering.

MaxInBristol · 27/08/2019 16:56

This is important, so it's a bit long. First, only the OP can know what she perceived to be her experience with the XR-supporting individuals at the event in her village. It may truly be that there were people behaving inappropriately and in an offensive, racist or intimidating manner. Clearly not acceptable or defensible.

However, this thread has contained a lot of anecdotal extrapolation of the perceived motives of people around XR in general advocating for urgent action over and engagement with the climate crisis we ALL face. Unlike a political party, which has official members and salaried representatives including MPs, XR is a collective where anyone can claim to act in their name or represent them voluntarily. Any such large group of people, official or unofficial, will inevitably include some who behave inappropriately - whether it's cash-for-questions, expenses scandals, anti-Semetism, misleading the public... why should we exempt XR from being vulnerable to the existence of such 'bad apples'?

At the same time, why should we condemn an entire movement if such undesirable behaviour occurs (exceptionally) within it?

The recurring theme of 'people like this', (insert your preferred "othering" here - privileged, middle-class, unemployed, benefits cheats, white, hippy, workshy, Marxist, lefty, groupie, you name it), 'people like this with - and here's the important part - nothing better to do' is concerning.

Think about it - we have an existential crisis which our political and asset classes are making very little progress on tackling, or worse still are denying, and a group of people who have chosen to say 'challenging this situation is the best use of my time, not for selfish reasons but because future generations are going to have to endure the consequences of me deciding I had something BETTER to do'. Something better to do than trying to alert people to impending societal and ecological (and therefore economic) collapse? Like...

I fear that the sometimes immature response to perceived 'lecturing' - akin to a teenage middle finger when challenged ("I'm NOT going to tidy my planet and you can go to hell because I'm gonna show you I LIKE sentencing my children to hardship and deprivation") - is going to overshadow a more mature response to perceived criticism or threat, which is to ask 'if they have a good point, how am I going to react in a more useful and appropriate and grown-up way?'

If given a choice, do we really still think that acquiescing and allowing ourselves to be led over a cliff edge to oblivion by incompetent, willfully ignorant (but elected) officials with enormous interests in the status quo beats seeing if the sincere, well-informed and capable people of XR might have something more appropriate and useful to say? That they might be helping US get a better say?

Obsessing over whether an individual XR supporter was seen without a reusable coffee cup is not really grounds (pardon the pun) for denouncing them, surely? They repeatedly make the point that we are ALL trapped in and by the current system and we ALL need to be enabled to make more sustainable and radical, paradigm-shifting choices. No-one is saying this stuff is easy, quite the contrary. We should be scared. We should be agitated into taking action.

XR seems to be saying - we all need to get involved. That doesn't mean travelling to a demo in another town if you can't afford to. The internet is pretty affordable for most of us in the UK - we're all here on MumsNet for free right? Phoning is pretty cheap for most of us - so have a conversation. Not gossip, not name-calling, not moaning (I know we Brits love a moan) - a meaningful, grown-up conversation.

This video gives a fair flavour of the movement. I for one feel it's time to stop and listen to them, and maybe talk about the really big issue we're all not talking about enough. Thanks for reading.

DIANATeresa · 27/08/2019 16:59

You sound so hurt and uncared for Azeema. I'm sorry.

Penners99 · 27/08/2019 17:02

I had one shout at me "what about the planet". I just said that there are too many people on the planet and if she really loved the planet then why was she still alive? No answer received.....

ehtnax · 27/08/2019 17:28

'they' are us - we are all going to be affected by climate change and we all need to re-calibrate our expectations and the way we live our lives, particularly those of us who live in developed countries. At the moment though, we are collectively not doing enough - either as individuals or as governments. Extinction Rebellion is pretty much the only identity which seems to be shouting as loudly as we need to, and which people can group around.
XR is an international movement of people who demand action on the climate emergency and who believe, quite rightly, that 'business as usual' is a path to certain catastrophe. Its not comfortable to be asked to stop and think about something as terrifying as global warming and consider making radical changes to our lives, so people are going to react strongly, in different ways. The movement involves a huge number of people and not everyone is going to behave perfectly - some are going to go about things in a way that we don't like (act like idiots) - many are going to live in a way that seems hypocritical (preach on the one hand and take flights on the other). We're all fallible humans.
Change is very hard, but it has to happen. I'd suggest don't think of people involved in Extinction Rebellion as them and us. We're all struggling to deal with what is happening. Don't let the actions of a few distract you from the central truths that Extinction Rebellion are trying to bring to everyone's attention. Why not spread the word in your own way instead?

DoomsdayCult · 27/08/2019 17:29

@MaxInBristol

Sorry, but you presume to lecture us about our “anecdotal extrapolation of perceived motives” and then go on to say in your next breath “incompetent, willfully ignorant (but elected) officials with enormous interests in the status quo beats seeing if the sincere, well-informed and capable people of XR....”

Excuse me? But haven’t you just done the same thing? Extrapolated perceived motives of elected officials? And XR activists?

And, no, I do not agree that humanity faces an “existential crisis” or “impending societal and ecological collapse.”

The planet was 3-5C HOTTER than it is NOW back when we were literally cavemen before the last ice age. We survived. Now we have the advantage and will be just fine. We have 60 million years until the next greenhouse phase. Plenty of time to terra form or colonise other planets.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 27/08/2019 17:32

Sorry, I've lost my punctuation in shock.

Not the same article! Not that I have only been reading about the EZ from NG.

I'm sure your puctuation will return to exemplary standard once your shock dissipates.

Moveoverplease · 27/08/2019 17:41

I wonder how many air and road miles, etc, are being used in promoting their cause, by people attending and by those they invite to speak/sing, etc.

I also wonder how many of them are vegan, have no children, no car, etc.

Moveoverplease · 27/08/2019 17:43

I agree that we need to protect the environment, but I don't like their tactics, it feels bullying.

Morningbird1 · 27/08/2019 17:46

I’m a member of XR; it’s hard to read many of these comments. So many things to respond to! Azeema If you use Facebook and if you can bear to, it might be an idea to send a message to the local XR group (or put it on the National XR page if you don’t know which group it is) about the way you were treated. That kind of behaviour is completely against the spirit of XR and would not have been tolerated on any of the actions I’ve been on. And yes many of us do the things we’re saying that people need to stop doing. Personally I’m trying to stop as many of them as I can but as long as the system makes it difficult and practically impossible for some people to change, then we need to change the system. Are we all white middle class rich people with good jobs? No. Lots of white middle class people yes but diversity is really important and we’re trying to improve. My daughter hated XR because of lack of diversity but when she actually met some of the people involved and talked to them she changed her mind and decided to help change it from within. And yes we use our white middle class privilege because we can, and so we should. Look at XR abroad though, much more diverse (in Uganda, in Kenya, Pakistan and India for example). The report about the 12 years to save the world was produced by the IPCC, the intergovernmental panel for climate change, which is made up of about 15,000 climate scientists I believe, from all over the world. They only publish what they can agree on, so that figure of 12 (now 11) years is very probably a conservative estimate. In many cases scientists appear to have underestimated the timescales by a number of decades. And as for the cold weather bringing everything to a halt; most XR people I know (myself included) spend several hours a day working to try and make the world wake up to what is happening and we will never stop until we feel we can’t do any more to move things faster. We all know that Greenpeace are amazing, complete heroes for all they’ve been doing. That FOE and other green groups have done sterling work in fighting the environmental cause. But 40 years of campaigning has not led us to the point where people are scared to death of what is happening - which is what they should be. We’re facing crop failure, heat stress, drought, rising sea levels, massive migration and disease. It’s going to happen. XR is simply trying to make sure we fight it in every way possible. And I’m not complacent about people missing appointments, or operations, or disturbing care homes. I hate it, I hate the fact that I may have been a cause of something like this and I will (and do) try and make sure that doesn’t happen whenever possible. But at some point we will all need to adjust the way we approach this. It will be like wartime when you knew that life was no longer normal and that we would all in some ways find our lives affected. I wish wish wish I didn’t have to be part of XR but I do.

RuffleCrow · 27/08/2019 17:55

As i understand it, this movement sort of grew out of the Population Matters wing of the Green Party so i wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Mostly misogynistic men who don't recognise that it's the forced marriage and constant rape of women globally that is largely responsible for over population of the planet. Far easier for them to take a snipe at a nearby mother than examine the role men play in climate change through their unchallenged abuse of women and girls.

WallyWallyWally · 27/08/2019 18:39

I read Naomi Kleins This Changes Everything recently. At the very start she goes to a climate deniers conference in the US, and concluded after interviewing many of them, that they don’t actually disbelieve the predictions of the IPCC any more: they have by and large accepted the opinion of the scientific community. What they do hate are most of the current proposals to address it: anything slacking of socialism or collective action or increased government / international control, anything that suggests that unbridled capitalism and the American Way might not be the best way to proceed. So they continue to question and deny and dismiss the science as one of their tactics to disrupt any collective response.

She concludes that only an»social movement» akin to the abolition of slavery can make the necessary changes. Can’t see that merging out of XR anytime soon. The latter had campaigners and speakers who were already deep in the heart of power and able to talk directly to the legislative powers. The UK has what 1 Green MP?

timshelthechoice · 27/08/2019 21:04

Paragraphs, please!

Nicetablecloth · 27/08/2019 21:58

MorningBird very interesting, thank you for sharing.

Morningbird1 · 27/08/2019 22:21

Sorry!

squeekums · 28/08/2019 01:47

@MustardScreams so you’re just going to ignore the fact there is a climate crisis because you don’t like a group? Really?

I'm gunna ignore people who scream and shout abuse at me. No matter what They say
Want me to listen, talk like a rational adult.
They want people to listen? stop hassling people who literally live pay to pay and can't afford to take several days off work like they do just to glue themselves to the road and affect everyone else going to work
Don't berate people for how they live when you have no idea of their lives or circumstances

MustardScreams · 28/08/2019 03:49

@squeekums that’s an incredibly childish view point to have. I’m also not berating anyone, I was merely asking a question.

It’s not about being able to afford to take time off work (?) it’s about raising awareness beyond the people who already care about climate change. The London protests were front page news for a week. You may not like the methods but they are spectacularly effective.

How much awareness for the climate emergency have you raised?

squeekums · 28/08/2019 04:29

@MustardScreams

Now follow along
I never said you were berating, I was talking what XR do, that's berating
Look at the majority of protesters, middle class and white, Someone who living week to week is much less likely to take time of work, lose money just to protest, no one I know will. We have more important things to worry about, like paying bills and eating.
Front page news don't mean people taking notice and following what they say. Just means they pissed off enough people to make front page and outrage sells papers

The way XR behaves is childish
Glueing themselves to roads is childish, property damage, risk to life of others.
Break, enter and theft is actually criminal as well as childish

None, I have my own shit to worry about in day to day life and I don't feel guilty about putting my family first. I could spend a few hundred to travel and protest or donate to the cause or I could buy food and pay my bills. I choose food and bills.

1300cakes · 28/08/2019 04:55

Disrupting things is the very point that they are making.

People are upset because an ambulance couldn't get through. A chemo session was cancelled. An old person heard loud noise they didn't like. In the near future, society won't exist because of climate disasters. So there won't be any ambulances, hospitals, chemo or nursing homes.

If one person not getting to hospital on time upsets you, how do you feel about no one ever getting to go to hospital ever again. The old people will have a lot more to worry about than headaches, like starvation.

1300cakes · 28/08/2019 04:58

The way XR behaves is childish... risk to life of others.

They are trying to make you see that all human, animal and plant life is currently at risk. Not just one person - 7 billion people and billions of animals.

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