To not want to be the nice one anymore ?

[MrsNotNice]

NC for this.

I have been known in my close family circle and friends as the nice peacemaker for all my life. I have been just raised as a chronic people pleaser and it just used to scare me to be the reason behind someone’s upset, even if they’re not justified. I never examined my life philosophy because I used to get all my motivation in life from having people around me happy with me. And I had loads of friends and was popular..

However was deeply deeply sad because the things I had to endure in order to maintain that source of affection from others, was unspeakable. I convinced myself I was privileged to have that many people like me, and that sometimes you have to compromise to get what I have.

The abuse I tolerated and rudeness now shocks me when I look back. I only started to examine things from an external perspective when I decided to “reparent” myself. And look at it from a point of view of whether I would advise my daughter to go on that same path. (Don’t have one yet)

And that’s when my feelings of rage resurfaced.. ancient buried tears. Flashes of occasions when I felt vulnerable and helpless, when I saw it as something my daughters could be feeling and how much she needed someone around her to step up - I went into full rage mode...

I somehow don’t value myself but was able to value those feelings when I projected it as a possibility on my future daughter.

It made me feel like those around me who I thought loved me have only loved what I was offering them. Unconditional support and building their happiness at my expense, no boundaries and someone to lean on and vent on when they need a discrete punching bag.

It made me realise that what I interpreted as love as a child, wasn’t really love.. because I know I feel love for a child, I would feel love for my daughter.. and that would translate to fiercely protecting her and making sure she knows I’m there when she is broken.. that I wouldn’t let her down the same way I was.

And this revelation has made me quite shocked.. to a point I’m no longer recognising myself. With the amount of inner anger I’m allowing to resurface.

I was a peacemaker. I thought I treat people the same way I “like” to be treated. And what I “liked” was to have someone there for me, when I really needed it and was at my most vulnerable and weakest state.. and so I decided I’m gonna be there for everyone just like what I deep down wanted.. I felt guilty if I said no to someone who seemed desperate because I recognized that desperation.. I even never said no to anything because I just didn’t want them to think they can’t rely on me to make them happy, don’t want anyone to feel what I felt, that I have no one to rely on.

But as I got older, I realised that it is those very people that I went out of my way for, that never understood why they needed to be there for me. I’m fact, when I was at my most vulnerable, they discarded me and found ways to blame me so they don’t have to deal with the guilt of not reciprocating.

Not one friend. Not one relative.. almost, everyone...

Im sat wondering whether it’s something wrong with me. When everyone turns their back on u. I allowed myself to be abused because I thought if they’re all against me then it must be me..

Until I woke up.. and realised that there’s nothing I could’ve done to deserve this. Not as a child. Not as an adult..

I’m picking myself up., I’m learning to put boundaries.. I’m learning to say no... and I’m letting my past abuse dictate to me who is worth keeping in my life and who I will stare in the face and let them know they mean nothing to me..

But it’s hard. Because that was my world. I’m scared of the future. I’m scared of the backlash. I’m scared of how I’m losing everyone at once...

Im still scared of hurting everyone else’s feelings, but there is a little voice in me that says, “dear daughter, you don’t owe anyone to hurt yourself just to make them feel better”.

I’ve harboured so many co dependant relationships in my life. Almost 75% of them I’m looking at and realising they’re codependent. Where I let people know they’re entitled to take everything from me and not give.. and that I don’t mind being the source of their happiness and not have anything reciprocated.

It is no wonder I had so many people like to be with me.. when I’m strong

But they were the first to look out for their own selves when I was at my weakest.

I’m so resentful and have shut down my emotions with regards to caring about how looking after myself make others feel.

I’ve onlt started putting up normal boundaries. Saying I don’t have time as have responsibilities. Saying I can’t discuss personal things because I prefer keeping it private. Saying I’m not the best person to solve their problems and they can seek a therapist.

But it seems I’m no longer valuable to those around me when I value myself.. because they’re feeling sorry for themselves and my entire circle of friends and family are looking at me as someone who is mentally unwell...

But I’m at the stage where im desperate to find myself, and I don’t define myself by the opinions or feelings of others.

But I’m scared.

Thanks for reading

OP go look up CoDA it’s a real thing and get support for being co-dependant.

SeaSidePebbles

You are absolutely right. Having neutral excuses to get out of situations might be the best way. It doesn’t always have to be confrontational I guess. I do need to convince myself first and foremost that confronting the issue won’t resolve things because some people have developed a life long habit of living in denial and twisting facts. I keep having hope that I can change people which is a bit delusional but I’m definitely getting better at that.

I noticed that I wasn’t able to stick up for my own needs because simply I wasn’t really catering for my own needs. I’ve gotten used to neglecting myself while putting the needs of others first. My parents have an amazing ability to dismiss my basic needs as unimportant even when I’m crumbling with desperation. And not that I expect them to help but what I do want from them is to not expect things from me and my family which make it impossible for me to cater for my own needs.. but I realise I might be enabling that by letting them see through my guilt when they want something ridiculous when I really shouldn’t be guilty.

Obviously this pattern has extended to many relationships in my life. I have a rediculous amount of guilt of being “selfish” if I look out for myself.

I was very much adopting this mentality of “let’s look out for each other”.. but the only person doing the looking out was me.. and it wasn’t voluntarily it was self inflicted obligation which is only applied to myself and if I go through a hard time... I have people running miles away and only come to me when they need me. Me enabling that.

I’ve helped myself not feel guilty about meeting my own basic needs and negotiate them guilt-free to challenge any ridiculous expectations of me or my family. I’ve convinced myself that I only offer help on my terms and if anyone has “built in ridiculous expectations of me” then I will have a built in response to all their requests which does not put my needs in a compromised position.. “let me find out if this works for us”, “let me see when is the best time to do this since I’m very busy”.. I just won’t be readily available anymore and will declare that I am considering myself first. And them at my own terms and convenience.

I’m sad to realise that I’m surrounded by people who are “takers” but unwilling to be considerate voluntarily.. but at least I have some control over how much it rules my life and eats at me.

I think I no longer have a vested interest in fixing anyone. Because truth is we all have flaws. But I just don’t need to let other people’s flaws consume me and my life.

Id rather be a disappointing daughter/friend/relative than be a punching bag who has no ability to offer anything kind because I’m floored with the abuse and lack of consideration I’m getting.

I don’t feel I’m mentally and emotionally fully there yet but my mindset really is. My expectations are pretty low so I’m able to remain gaurded.

Need to work on different ways to not say yes while avoiding conflict. But I’m certainly determined to do it. And determined to not have to overshare my personal life to mask my guilt which shouldn’t really be there.

Redrosesandsunsets

I’ll have a look at codependency. From the little I have read about it, it certainly does sound relevant. I would say I’ve been pretty independent most my life including childhood, never really ask for anything not even the basics. Even if I’m suffering and struggling.

But perhaps my expectations were that one day the tables will turn and if I crumble someone will be there for me. Which didn’t happen and I guess I did invest a lot in some relationships with that as an expectation. So perhaps I am a bit codependent without realising. Need to read more though.

Also part of me relieving my guilt in this situation is knowing that those people do have a way back to having a good relationship with me if they wanted..

To acknowledge that I’m worth their effort to want to change and that they need therapy. To acknowledge the abuse I have been going through at least to themselves and take actions forward to ensure it doesn’t continue..

I haven’t decided to push them away, they decided to keep themselves pushed out by seeing me as someone worthy of abuse. And that I should just “move on” because they’re apparently worth my martyrdom. While I’m not worth any of their self reflection.

I’m so thankful for this thread. I keep coming back to it when I’m in doubt and when I’m lost in fog again. It will take a while to emerge out of FOG but I’m certainly developing all the needed resilience.

Independent is not the opposite of co-dependent.
Co-dependent is a vicious circle in which you’re emotionally dependent on other’s moods/opinions etc.
You can be both independent and co-dependent.

So, I am independent, as in: I have a job, I pay my own bills, I have a mortgage on my own name, I have a car and a push bike, I know my own boundaries and expectations, I decide on all aspects of my life, when I can do things without having to rely on others.
Co-dependent is when my moods depend on other’s expectations of me, when I put other’s happiness before mine in an unhealthy way, when, say, I am the fixer in a relationship. Or, say, my partner is an addict and my life revolves around his addiction.
That kind of stuff.

We think you exhibit co-dependent traits because so much of your anguish is in relation to others.

Look, I have one those jobs that really helps people. Every day. A caring profession. Full time. I also volunteer, do fund raising for charity, have an open house policy, I’m a feeder...in a nut shell, I give a lot. Every day.
But I wouldn’t do it if it was in my detriment. Just like I am not doing it because I expect anything in return. I don’t do it to make myself feel better. I do it because it’s needed and I have the skills, I am enjoying what I’m doing.

If I did all that so people can perceive me in a certain light, I would be codependent. If I did it to please others. But I’m not. If I did it just because it was expected of me, because, if I stopped, people would not like who I am anymore, that would be codependency.

See what I mean?

We think you exhibit co-dependent traits because so much of your anguish is in relation to others.

Ah that makes sense! I wouldn’t say I do things for others because I want people to perceive me in a certain light or because people expect it of me, but I guess I do think the lines got blurred somewhere somehow and maybe I did start to do that because I felt my good gestures became obligations. Often the case.

And I guess without realising I was expecting “karma” to repay me one day. It sounds silly when I say it out loud but it’s true. As usual thanks for the reflection this realisation so therapeutic.

So I’m booked up to therapy next week. I will start it as a couple with DH.

I informed them that I have issues with boundaries to protect myself from feeling vulnerable and value my own needs. And I will add to that, I need to learn how to establish positive relationships that aren’t codependent and dig through the route of my codependency.

Thanks ladies for highlighting all that to me. It’s true my happiness and fulfilment should be completely dependant on things that are within my control and not things outside my control as then I’m stuck in an unpredictable cycle of emotions and blame it on others. Makes sense. I’ll b mindful of that now!

Are you having issues with boundaries, or are you having issues with your expectations?

I only ask because you expect karma to solve the issue.

I definitely have boundary issues. Getting better.

Expectations are a matter I haven’t explored yet. But you pointed it out and I can see where I might need to look at that.

When I said karma I guess what I meant is that I expected human nature esp of people that supposedly care for us to be inherently wanting to do good and that it’s just misunderstandings that come in the way.. and I never really expected to be intentionally treated badly or let down or spitefully when I’m clearly doing someone favours.

I guess I just didn’t understand what being “entitled” and “self centred” is. I just assumed people expect you to compromise because they would too.. especially people who supposedly care about you and who are unloading all their problems unto you.

More so.. To think of it, maybe it was the carrot and stick situation. With me being the donkey carrying everyone’s problems.

I was raised with a carrot. Told that family always stick together and are always worth it. At the time of need you will only find family by your side. We are worth the sacrifice.. it kept me focused while carrying everyone load.. I guess I was always chasing that supposed love... that was meant to come one day once those problems are resolved.. but doesn’t look like anyone cares about resolving anything and I was just going to forever carry the load.

And it also made me make something positive out of being passive about being beaten with a stick. To me, lower boundaries was a sign of compromise.. of love... it was a necessity so we can reach that carrot..

For me my carrot was obtaining that family unit.. love.. care... being there for each other at vulnerable times... I believed that everyone is being selfish but that when it comes to the crunch of course I mattered.. just like they do to me.

So yes, it did shatter me to realise the moment I broke no one was really there.. I could say it was an expectation.. and when others turned their back on me and started finding my flaws because they wanted me to toe the line and get up and get moving in their favour... yes, I guess I didn’t expect bad treatment to be intentional..

I guess I didn’t realise who was carrying the stick in the first place ? I thought it was just life...

Obviously I never philosophised it this way as it was something I had just assumed everyone is like.. but now I’m able to see it a bit as an outsider.. so I guess yeh, my expectations and lack of boundaries are intertwined.

I need to realise that carrot was never going to be in my reach.. sad.. after all those years of taking the stick for it.. bitter pill to swallow.

To be fair on myself, I genuinely am the type that’s generously ready to give .. I like to feel utilised and useful...

I didn’t think it was for praise.. I would do many things in discretion because to me I like to feel like a positive force..

I feel like I’m able to love myself when I’m a force for good.. I guess you can argue it’s where my self worth comes from. Me feeling like I make a positive difference.. is tat wrong ??

But i think that’s precisely what made me a convenient donkey for some.. and I guess my expectations built slowly because of the exhaustion I went through while being forced to carry the loads of other people..

I willingly was there for them , helping them on my terms. But I did get exploited and when I did, I didn’t like it, but I was told it was going to be worth it in the end. So I guess the expectation was rather an agreement that I was forced into.. and not the drive behind my personality.

Hope it makes sense..

How are you doing, @MrsNotNice?

Hi SeaSidePebbles,

Thanks a lot for asking and checking in.

I’ve had my baby daughter. And I did have a lot of thoughts while in labour about how I promised myself to become a stronger person and I even started talking to her as soon as they put her on me saying “I’m going to be stronger for you”.

I feel I’ve made so much emotional progress through mountains and milestones. And this thread has really helped me feel safe to do that. I have realised feelings aren’t a scary thing and negative ones aren’t always best avoided.

I have a counselling session starting tomorrow but I’m going to reschedule as I need to recover but I will be attending it ASAP. Hopefully it will help me set boundaries and move forward without the guilt that comes and goes in waves..

I haven’t been so firm on boundaries because with the arrival of the newborn things tend to get blurred and I feel to vulnerable. But what I did progress on is detaching my own emotions and feelings and protecting myself from totally being immersed in dynamics that result in me being hurt..

During to my conscious emotional detachment I managed to learn many things about important relationships in my life and listen in to many clues that I would’ve otherwise brushed away..

One of the significant people in my life who I had spent ages trying to get their approval and constantly feeling rejected and always blaming myself and letting it destory my self esteem... always having hopes that this time I will do things better and will get a healthy relationship bla bla... internalised all their views of me and blame until the voice in my head became their voice of reason and I was letting them live in my head...

I couldn’t be too sure if it’s my fault we have a bad dynamic even though my gut wanted to stay away and it’s too toxic.. I do love them but they just had so much resentment towards me and disguised it under finding my flaws to justify that resentment..

The milestone I’ve reached is that I have accepted this person and their feelings towards me.. it was so hard to accept because I believed there was something I can do about it.. but now I know all I can do about it is empathise and cry for the healthy relationship I wanted to have.

They came to me after I had my baby and admitted that me, my achievements, status, relations, appearance were used by her bully to shame her... and I finally understood what is meant when people say that people that shame you have insecurities themselves. That yes that person was struggling to support me, struggling to see me succeed, revelling at my negative encounters.. simply because it makes them feel safe from their own vulnerabilities.. because they’re weak. That it never had anything to do with me.

That the only hope for them to appreciate me isn’t more of MY effort but more of theirs to tackle their own issues. That I don’t need to run for their approval and don’t need to feel guilty about something I didn’t contribute to. Just by being.

I learnt to expect reality and accept it. I was able to empathize when I detached myself from the situation. Yes it must feel rubbish to have yourself put down constantly using someone else’s fortunes. It’s not like I’m better than her, I never saw it this way and so I didn’t understand the resentment. But in her head she was entertaining thoughts of bullying embedded in her and continuing that cycle.

I learnt to detect that voice in my own head, and realise, I was breeding insecurities by letting it fester too.. I now when I talk negativity to myself recognise them source.. recognise the reasoning behind the source.. I empathise and I brush away that voice and say... no, you are a good person and this is exactly why you were shamed..

I let the negative voice be my voice of confidence.

I think we live in a world which is a jungle. People who are meant to be good are played against each other..

I’ve recognised a pattern where I attracted a certain kind of relationship dynamic.. of people who are takers with no bounds because I recognised their insecurities and sympathised and I’m a giving person.. I thought it was compassion.. but it’s those very insecurities that came in between me and them.. and now I see why. And I can at least make a judgement call on whether I want to give, on my own terms, and how to protect myself from being the target of someone trying to make themselves feel better. I at least not know that it wasn’t because I am immature abd stupid that people felt able to do that, but it’s because I just didn’t understand that behaviour of putting down someone for your own rising and so couldn’t relate or predict it. But now I can acknowledge that people handle their misfortunes differently and that at times it’s to the detriment of others.. I can empathise but I can’t be their punching bag because that won’t benefit anyone.

I was once easily manipulated and I’m sure unknowingly was used to hurt others.. without wanting to be malicious. I was young and naive. I was being used.. and the best way to help myself and everyone around me is to place boundaries so I won’t be manipulated this way..

So it’s true it doesn’t matter what the motivations of others are.. what really matters is how we protect our individuality and self. I still want to be giving. I want to be kind. I want to be loving. I want to have compassion and have someone back. But I want to do so willingly. And want those around me to know that I have a choice in what I’m doing and that I can withdraw it if they take advantage.

I want people to be comfortable to trust me and my morals but not comfortable to be themselves when they’re not being fair or rational. In fact it would be better that my presence would make them uncomfortable with their own skin if they have a habit of putting me down.. making someone feel comfortable to be themselves isn’t always compassionate. There are times when people should lower their guards and get personal but that’s when they have trust and a relationship based on mutual respect. Some people need to work to achieve that and it shouldn’t just be handed to them.

I have a lot of realisations to do but I’m many steps closer to stop feeling guilty in erecting my own boundaries with people I care about.. and not being made to feel selfish about it.

I’m really thankful for the support. I hope next weeks session would give me an action plan where I can feel secure about my boundaries because I’m at the stage where this is what I need. Learning when to be firm about them and when to be flexible and let the guard down without losing control.

Lots of hugs for your help seaside. You have had an immense impact on my journey. Thanks for reading my long rambling

Huge congratulations on the birth of your baby girl, OP!!!
Counselling is extremely tiring/draining, it’s worse before it gets better. And you’re already going through probably the most tiring period of your life with a newborn. They don’t have an off button 😂. Take it easy 🤗

I come across as quite defensive sometimes, in my bid to protect my boundaries. For a long time it was me versus them. And by god I was going to win. One thing I came to realise is that all people wish to be happy, to be loved, to be safe. Absolutely every single one of them. That’s what I think they mean by ‘one love’. We’re all going about it our own way. It’s the balance between the individual needs and the needs of your tribe. A thin rope. The art of living.

You are so right I went counselling and I’m left a bit confused. I’m glad I didn’t do it earlier and waited till I have a bit of confidence. I’m personally not sure what to expect from a therapist but I feel like she was all about “develop a thick skin and stop caring about people” which I don’t feel is the type of advice I would pay for because to be honest I get that sort of advice from anywhere for free.

I don’t know maybe I need to give it time but it’s definately draining.

I remember looking at my counsellor thinking:why am I here? I could be telling all this to my girlfriends, in fact, I had been, it got me nowhere apart from making them fed up about the subject.
She was looking at me saying: you are such a tough nut to crack it’s unbelievable. Incidentally, that’s what my DP’s been telling me all along, but I just dismissed that one. From time to time though, you get a lightbulb moment, you realised that you’ve been gently led to that path by the counsellor and that, with everything at the forefront already, you can see the picture clearly.
I also think counselling saves your relationships, there’s someone there to just listen to you.
Keep at it if you can.
How’s the baby?

SeaSidePebbles

Hi SeaSide,

It’s been indeed a messy messy journey.

I feel like I’m beginning to find my voice. Which stems from kindness and not anger.

I had the two conflicted. And now I see the difference clear as sun.

Being assertive is about being proactive about being fair and kind to myself, and taking responsibility for my own emotions and actions.

I cannot believe how often i conflates that with aggressively and bossily demanding my rights back and so was put off Doing it and only reached that point when I felt like I was sure the person deserves nothing less than misery from me.. and that was very rare because I’m a people pleaser by inclination.

Now I know the two aren’t related. And I figured out the fine line when I learnt the difference not neglecting myself can do to me and my family and all around me.. and so my kids gave me the courage to discover what are my needs to feel non vulnerable and to proactively fence it.

Wow. All I know is.. I didn’t know who I was. My identity was so enmeshed in everyone else’s that I was trying to please. I had no likes or dislikes. No needs or wants .

Only expectations that I want to meet and responsibilities that I was to fulfil and prior I want to please.

So the journey of discovering myself had started by educating myself about human nature. Everything was foreign to me..

To pinpoint how I feel and why I feel was genuinely a mystery to me. I’m letting my very expressive little girl demonstrate to me what it all means.

I love her to the moon and back.

And I’m shocked that I can actually say this, but I no longer feel bad about not putting myself last.. I deserve kindness and so I’ll give it to myself first before I pour anything out.