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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask you to clarify "reasonable" in my dispute with a church and noise?

323 replies

alittlequinnie · 21/08/2019 19:49

My DH and I have a meeting next week with the Council and representatives of the Church next door.

We have had trouble with noise issues for the past four years.

The result of the meeting will probably be defined by the Council's idea of what you should "reasonably" expect as noise from a Church.

Would any of you be able to take the time to suggest what you would suggest would be "reasonable" to expect if you lived next door to a Church?

I don't want to give too much info yet because it needs to be an unbiased opinion.

To help though the Church is a very modern one - built in the 1980s / 1990's and a Methodist Church.

I'd be so grateful if you could let me know what you would expect if you lived next to a Church.

OP posts:
frostedflakes1 · 21/08/2019 21:20

I live right next to a church. For me during the week, unless there’s an occasion, it’s just the hourly bells that chime until 9pm. On Sundays there is a long ring marking the start of the service, and then you do here people chattering, loud hymns etc. Every so often there will be a wedding and that does mean a lot of noise inevitably but tbh I’m used to it and don’t mind. When we bought the house we knew Church noise was gonna be a factor.

Nanny0gg · 21/08/2019 21:20

Is there someone you can go to over the head of the Methodist Minister? I don't know the hierarchy of that religion.

Might even be worth getting local press/councillor/MP involved too.

frostedflakes1 · 21/08/2019 21:21

My church is a very traditional one however, no parties etc. Just services, weddings and the occasional funeral

Goingonagondola · 21/08/2019 21:21

It's not very Christian of them. :(

june2007 · 21/08/2019 21:21

I would concentrate on complaints that refer tonoise outside of the 8am-9pm window.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 21/08/2019 21:23

www.gov.uk/guidance/noise-nuisances-how-councils-deal-with-complaints

Unless it's a very noisy street in general (eg next to a busy road or railway line or backs onto a row of nightclubs) it seems clear they are breaking the councils rules and they have to take action

Reasonable in the legal sense normally means what the lay person in the street would expect. So the usual celebrations and services, bells etc. Maybe some amplification loud enough so that everyone in the church can hear it. Not loud enough so that someone in another non adjoining building with their windows shut can hear it - that's clearly unreasonable as there is no actual need for it. Also most people wouldn't assume any noise overnight other than things like midnight mass at Chritmas. Hopefully your case will be easy to prove

verystressedmum · 21/08/2019 21:23

4 years? I'd have been at the solicitors after 6 months!
Take this higher within the church and see a solicitor. Just because the minister likes the revenue the rent generates doesn't mean he can ignore this. He is renting it it is his responsibility.

donutrehomer · 21/08/2019 21:25

I live next to a church, have done for 20 years.

They have no respect for any of the nearby houses whatsoever.

I had to call the fire brigade out for their last bonfire. They put it so close to the boundary fence it set alight trees from a neighbouring garden.

It was damp garden cuttings, wood , paper, etc. And the smoke was black and the smell was vile.

It was the first sunny Sunday so everyone had their washing out.

They didn't give a shit frankly and are write blatant about it.

If they post on fb advertising their services, the reaction is mostly asking them to park showing consideration for residents. As they block the road every week. Again, they ignore the requests.

Summer events use a pa system that is so loud my windows vibrate and I have upvc windows.

It was a playgroup when I moved in. That was bliss in comparison.

aliceelizaloves · 21/08/2019 21:28

We live next to a church but ours is a old, traditional cofe church. The noise we have, apart from obviously the various meetings on the Sunday, is bell ringing practice on two nights a week which happens between 7-9 and is obviously very loud.

The noise I would reasonably expect from the type of church you describe would be the sounds of preaching, singing and people meeting on a Sunday and perhaps also a couple of nights during the week for fellowship meetings, youth groups, etc but all finished by 9pm.

BentNeckLady · 21/08/2019 21:30

Bloody hell, it sounds awful. They sound like utter arseholes. Have you tried speaking to your local councillor?

RippleEffects · 21/08/2019 21:33

Have you looked at all the legal angles you can think of? I'm just wondering what the original planning use was. Is it classified as a D1 place of worship and are there any restrictions on the original planning. It may even be online if you search.

NoSquirrels · 21/08/2019 21:34

The Methodist Minister is surely the one who needs to take responsibility for his tenants - and I’d be complaining loudly and vocally on a Sunday to their congregation members!

NoSquirrels · 21/08/2019 21:37

Take this higher within the church

The issue with Methodist churches is that they are governed locally - it’s not like the Diocese structure of the CofE, for example, where you could go up the hierarchy to the Bishop etc.

aliceelizaloves · 21/08/2019 21:39

Just read your update. Yes that definitely sounds unreasonable. Are non of the other neighbours complaining about it as well?

BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 21/08/2019 21:41

What you need is a huge poster in your front window.

THOU SHALT LOVE THEY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF
You are breaking this by being inconsiderate to everyone who lives nearby. Satan is looking forward to greeting you in hell some day soon. Jesus will be so disappointed in you when he gets back.

But, yes, complain endlessly to the council ... endlessly, by phone and (recorded) letter. Make sure that you get some sort of noise recording devices installed in your garden and inside your house so that both the length and volume of the disturbance can be verified.

cantkeepawayforever · 21/08/2019 21:48

I think you have two possible angles - one through the Methodist church (who own the building) and one through the Seventh day Adventists themselves. There is a loose heirarchy within the Methodists so you can probably go up through District if you need to.

i know nothing about the organisational structure of the Adventists - it doesn't help that their website doesn't work on my computer. I would, however, be tempted to take this up the Adventist hierarchy (taking the line that the local congregation is bringing their organisation into disrepute - my understanding is that the Adventists are very 'respectable', for want of a better word, and may take a dim view iof this)

Woodchiponthewall · 21/08/2019 21:48

I live next to a church in a very similar set up and there is no noise which would disturb us. People coming and going and hymns on a Sunday which you can hear from the garden. I would’ve been taken aback to discover the church was a bad neighbour, it didn’t even occur to me. Huge sympathies OP, it sounds dreadful.

miri1985 · 21/08/2019 21:51

You have my sympathy OP! I never knew how noisy people could be until an illegal airbnb moved in next door to me.

IMHO you've been nice for too long. I would make sure I had all the evidence I needed and contact a solicitor and file a nuisance action naming both the Church and the 7th day. They won't actually care until it hits them in their pockets

Ragwort · 21/08/2019 21:52

I would again inform the Methodist Minister that this is totally unneighbourly and then take it higher, to circuit and district level. Search the Methodist Website for more details. As a Methodist myself I am shocked that you are being treated like this.

justforthisnow · 21/08/2019 21:54

There was a case locally recently (Born again Christians) where a neighbour complained about drums at each service, persistent and over a few hours. She lost, incredibly.

Ylvamoon · 21/08/2019 22:00

justforthisnow - probably under the freedom to worship act or something similar.

OP I feel for you. What you describe is beyond any acceptable noise level for an residential area.
I hope you get it sorted, however unlikely that will be.

theunrivalledjoysofparenting · 21/08/2019 22:02

Bonkers! They are being very U. Nobody would expect all night services or amplification you can hear outside. The building should be appropriate for use. Aren’t there codes for when a building can be used too? Your council should be able to help. I’d also research the Methodist church hierarchy and contact the top. Go over the head of the minister. Include timeline of noise, details of worst instances, decibels - and say what the minister said.

It sounds terrible. I’m so sorry, and hope you can sort this.

Palaver1 · 21/08/2019 22:02

My gosh if it’s evangelical it’s going to be loud and really loud with car door slamming people talking above each other.Loud praying .
People leaving talking over their voices ,singing lots of mid week meetings,choir practicing my gosh .
I wouldnt live next to although I would attend.
Parking would be a problem for the residence.
I could go on and on.

georgialondon · 21/08/2019 22:03

The only powers the council has in this matter is in terms of statutory noise nuisance. You can look it up and see whether you think it would classify as statutory nuisance. I don't think it would.

CedarTreeLeaf · 21/08/2019 22:04

If I moved next to a church, I would expect noise all the time. I know there was a church near us that ran a baby clinic, but then you also have to consider weddings, funerals, youth groups, social activities, music practice, etc. You have a large group of random people outside your house who will not be controlled no matter how much anyone promises. The congregation will probably have regulars (who may not care, be hard of hearing, etc) but they could also have visitors who won't know they're supposed to keep the volume down. How can they guarantee the volume to which people speak to each other on the road or in the parking area? I just can't see it happening. We used to live in an area near a large field that was used for events, all of those events were completely unrelated to each other (ranging from military to kids sports). There's no way anyone could control the volume even if a resident complained.