AIBU to ask you to clarify "reasonable" in my dispute with a church and noise?

[alittlequinnie]

My DH and I have a meeting next week with the Council and representatives of the Church next door.

We have had trouble with noise issues for the past four years.

The result of the meeting will probably be defined by the Council's idea of what you should "reasonably" expect as noise from a Church.

Would any of you be able to take the time to suggest what you would suggest would be "reasonable" to expect if you lived next door to a Church?

I don't want to give too much info yet because it needs to be an unbiased opinion.

To help though the Church is a very modern one - built in the 1980s / 1990's and a Methodist Church.

I'd be so grateful if you could let me know what you would expect if you lived next to a Church.

Yes, what you're describing with the Seventh Day Adventists sounds totally unreasonable.

I've lived a few doors down from an Anglican church and it was fine - the bells were loud but only twice a week, and obviously I knew about them when I moved in. I could sometimes hear hymns etc but barely, and although it was in use for stuff like Brownies and Cubs, that was never a nuisance. I actually really liked being near it, even though I'm not religious at all. Currently I live opposite an orthodox synagogue which is busy with services and events etc but the only noise I've ever heard from there was from one specific festival. Again, I'd say I like living near it - it's nice to see people arriving and chatting and generally seeming happy outside.

By contrast, when I lived near a large evangelical modern church (the type that's in a warehouse-type building and has a happy clappy name like 'Awesome Praise Church' or something, I would regularly walk past it and think 'I'm so glad I don't live right next door'. The noise was unreal, and it was usually awful Christian rock with a big sound system, and when you walked past you could hear the preacher shouting hysterically into a PA system. Also the actual worshippers used to accost passers by outside in the evenings in a borderline aggressive, pushy way and try to talk to them about Jesus, and not take 'No' for an answer - I once had a man from there physically grab me by the wrist as I tried to walk away.

So, yes, I feel your pain on this one and I would hope that the Council will certainly be on your side because what you're describing isn't OK.

I live in an old part of my village and the Norman Church is opposite. We have Bell Practice on Tuesdays for two hours. \The "tolling bell" is used and we have bells at funerals and Weddings. The Queen's Birthday and other special days bring bells. On Remembrance Day a service is held just outside my front window. I love living here and think the bells are wonderful.

I must add- I had a friend once who lived in a house almost next door to a busy church. It’s a church with a very important and impressive history and has been there for over 150 years. She used to complain about the church bells ringing. In that case I thought she was being very unreasonable. I was half expecting something similar from your post but no, I definitely agree with you that you need to complain!

That sounds like hell. And they have the temerity to call themselves Christian!

I'd write really careful notes in advance, and be ready to stick your ground and discuss them.

Telll them that he's making your neighbour cry all the time and your lives a living hell. Ask him what price he's putting on your mental health.

Have you been to doctors at all over the years for help with the anxiety and sleeplessness that I imagine it's caused? Could you get that documented too? How about complaining to the Methodist Council as well?

We're six years on from extremely noisy neighbours and I still get flashbacks when I hear certain kinds of music, my stomach drops and I get worried. It sticks with you.

When you go in to ask them if they can quieten it down the volume is so loud that you have to cup your hand over the other person's ear and shout to be heard - just like in a nightclub.

If any of the congregation- particularly children- end up with permanent hearing damage after years of this I wonder who is liable?

I would expect church services on a Sunday.
A Methodist church is likely to have hymn singing.
Churches now, are used extensively during the week, so there may well be toddler groups, AA groups, or other group meetings during the week.
If it is a modern evangelical church, there may be instruments used in the church service.
If an old CofE Church (which this is not), then there may be bells for weddings, and also a bell ringers practise night, but that is usually just an hour.
There could be choir practise, or the Christmas concert.
So, I would expect some noise, but its generally manageable.
I would expect a church service (or maybe 2) on A Sunday.

This will sound nuts but once a week on a Saturday I would set up a mini death metal festival in my garden and make sure it gets to exactly 57 decibels in their church. Keep that up for a few months and I think they’ll find somewhere else to rent.

I’d be knocking on doors and finding every other neighbour who was being disturbed and getting them to complain too. I’m sure it’s many more people than you realise.
If you had moved in last week and not checked the noise levels that’s your issue, but this is a major change. This will also be devaluing your home.

I was about to come wading in with a reasonable amount of abuse for you saying you knew the church was there, you’re like the townies that come into the country and complain about tractors and smells, etc etc
But from what you describe it sounds unbearable and completely unreasonable!

I’m not sure what I would do in your shoes, quite honestly I think I’d be like your neighbour and rocking back and forth sobbing. (I hate too much loud noise it really upsets me)

I hope you get somewhere with the council meeting but I’m not sure what you can actually do if the 7th day Adventist’s ignore it all and carry on regardless.

I do feel for you.

I would tape 30 minutes of the noise at several times of the day and night and make sure you play some of it at the meeting. I hope you get some action from the council.

Has the issue got in the local press?

Are there any neighbours in other streets that are also affected?

Have you complained higher up to the Methodist Church?

Legally it's irrelevant that the church was there first if the noise is causing a nuisance. I think it would be worth instructing a solicitor to write to the church highlighting the nuisance being caused and that you'll have to take it further if the noise isn't addressed.

Lived next door to a church a number of years ago and we got
Church bell practice 7 - 9.30pm every Thursday
Weddings most Saturdays
Services every Sunday
The odd event or additional gathering mid week

YANBU. It sound awful. They sound like very inconsiderate people.

That does sound a bit much @alittlequinnie Very unreasonable actually. I don't know what to suggest though. We have a Church in our village with quite a few events on - not as much as yours though - but the actual Church itself is around 450 feet (140 or so metres,) from the nearest house, so nobody is massively disturbed by any noise or people.

There is a wedding (or 2) most Saturdays throughout June, July, and August though, and the Church has no car park! Sometimes, there are 40 to 45 cars, but can be up to 70 or so cars, and they park all up the high street, and the lane down the side of the Church, and also creep into our cul de sac, that is around 650 feet from the Church (200 metres.) Also Christenings twice a month, but not usually as many cars. But none of it bothers us enough to move.

Good luck with the meeting. Think I would be planning on moving though!

Which church are you meeting with?

Im not actually surprised the trouble is coming from a Seventh Day Adventist church. I work with a SDA adherent. She is horrible.

Two representiatives came over and one was all "there are buses going past so our noise doesn't matter" but the other chap said that he was genuinely shocked at how loud it was in our garden and also inside our house.

Sounds like the ‘other chap’ has been overruled by the rest of the group. Do you have his name/contact details so you could appeal to him directly/pass on to the council?

Has the other house made any formal complaints at all.

Initially I was ‘buy a house next to a church, what do you expect?’ But after reading your updates it sounds awful. I hope the council can help you. Good luck

Funnylittlefloozie. So do I or I did! I handed in my notice and explained in my exit interview she was a bully and a bigot. Her views were all one sided.

I am a teacher and she was my boss and I had conversations constantly with her about the RE curriculum and the need to teach all religions and acknowledge all equality and diversity law.
She banned all Harry Potter books from the library and mention of magic and god forbid you mention Halloween!

YANBU OP. We have a SDA church behind us. The most selfish, self absorbed, entitled bunch of wankers I’ve ever come across. The noise as they blare their God awful singing through speakers at 10pm at night, the parking across my drive blocking me in, the shouting, door slamming, kids screaming in the street at midnight when they should be in bed. If it wasn’t illegal I’d burn the bloody thing to the ground to get some peace & quiet.

Normal coming and going at service times is fine. I wouldn't mind music/singing at dedicated service times/choir practice. More noise on Holy Days, no problem. People getting drunk on the communion wine and brawling, obviously would be a problem.

Could you go higher than the Methodist minister?

'In the United Methodist system of polity, the Council of Bishops is the Executive Branch of United Methodist Church government. Bishop Kenneth H. Carter currently serves as President of the Council of Bishops'

We lived opposite a church. When we moved in there was standard CoE services. Evenings until 8pm. Sunday early morning. Organ music. A few More parked cars. Sunday bells. No problem at all. Totally expected.

Then they started having Sunday night and Saturday morning services then went on for 4 or 5 hours. Saturday's included amplified bands and people screaming down microphones. Cars double parked and on the pavement. Sunday nights were similar and finished at 11pm but the crowds of people on our residential street would stand and chat loudly until 1am sometimes. Shouting, slamming car doors, beeping. They also got some food in the church so came out eating it and would throw their rubbish and paper plates into our garden.

I complained heartily to the council on the basis that no one expects that amount of disruption from a church. Ironic that the pub up the road had to have everyone indoors by 9pm to keep their licence! Thankfully the Sunday night one got closed down and the Saturday one had to stop using speakers.

Oops should have said- I would expect much less noise at early morning or evening services than morning or afternoon. I think its reasonable to live next to a church and expect to hear the services etc.

I live about 100 foot from a church, but the entrance is at the far end.

Bells are only rung on Monday evenings and for the Sunday services and weddings. There is no car park adjacent, so there is not a lot of car noise or indeed chatter outside on a Sunday. If there are weekday activities other than Monday evening bell practice then it is news to me, as they are unheard.

So I have no issue with them.

If it's a methodist church there would be no alcohol involved at all so no drunken parties. My DB lives next to a methodist church no problems. Maybe a brass band at fetes