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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask you to clarify "reasonable" in my dispute with a church and noise?

323 replies

alittlequinnie · 21/08/2019 19:49

My DH and I have a meeting next week with the Council and representatives of the Church next door.

We have had trouble with noise issues for the past four years.

The result of the meeting will probably be defined by the Council's idea of what you should "reasonably" expect as noise from a Church.

Would any of you be able to take the time to suggest what you would suggest would be "reasonable" to expect if you lived next door to a Church?

I don't want to give too much info yet because it needs to be an unbiased opinion.

To help though the Church is a very modern one - built in the 1980s / 1990's and a Methodist Church.

I'd be so grateful if you could let me know what you would expect if you lived next to a Church.

OP posts:
Palaver1 · 21/08/2019 22:04

dollydaydream114

Spot on ,that’s cracked me up but explained perfectly .

Buggeritimgettingup · 21/08/2019 22:06

It sounds annoying but 56 decibels isn't really that loud?
www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/Sounds/Decibles.htm

OVienna · 21/08/2019 22:10

Good luck OP. I'd also be exploring sending a legal letter.

DeedleTwee · 21/08/2019 22:11

My friend is a 7th Day Adventist. From what I've seen of her clips posted of services, it's pretty much like a full on concert isn't it? Proper band playing, huge audience swaying and singing along? Her church is on an industrial estate so I guess it doesn't bother anyone. It looks lovely and the band are talented but I can totally see why electric guitars, PA systems and microphones, along with 100 people, would irritate you!

stucknoue · 21/08/2019 22:16

I work for a church, you should expect during the week toddler groups, older people groups, homeless drop in, food bank, traveller community contact point, madrasah, scouts, choirs (x4), Latin group, various church employees coming and going. On Saturdays the hall is hired out for private functions, noise limited restrict music volumes. The main church is rented to community groups for concerts eg amateur orchestras and choirs. On Sundays services x3 (plus services during the week on specific dates of course). Our church is older than any resident can possibly be so my comment to the moany lady next door who doesn't like the bells at 8am is why did she move next to a church!

NataliaOsipova · 21/08/2019 22:19

but they say it's their Church and not up to us to say what they do in the street.

I think Noise Control have defined rules about noise (before 11om measured from a sitting room, after 11pm from a bedroom). Just call them every single time. Every time....and you’ll build up a body of evidence.

TowelNumber42 · 21/08/2019 22:23

I would also go the route of starting a death metal band that practises at stupid decibels.

Maybe you could hire some audio equipment and get the piano playing neighbour and friends to play the tune to The Omen repeatedly on a Saturday.

In reality I'd push for a total ban on them using amplification. Acoustic only. They'd probably start looking for somewhere else to rent.

Alternatively see if you can convince some other group to want to hire it all day Saturday, though that's a long shot.

Ihatesundays · 21/08/2019 22:27

Actually I have an idea. Tape the Saturday service, play it back during the Sunday service - see how they like it.

CassianAndor · 21/08/2019 22:37

That sounds fucking awful and I'd be raising this higher up the chain of command. Bishop or whoever (don't know anything about Methodists), police noise team every time it's after 11pm, environmental health, MP. And local press.

ReanimatedSGB · 21/08/2019 22:42

Oh poor you! They sound like a right bunch of wingnuts and, unfortunately, the sort who think that their imaginary friend is happy for them to be totally fucking inconsiderate to 'unbelievers'. They're going to pull the 'religious discimination' card and claim victim status when challenged, I bet.

(For those who haven't read the thread, this is way above and beyond acceptable noise from a public building. And it's a recent development, not something OP should have expected when they moved in.)

SteadyAreYouReady · 21/08/2019 22:46

I’m surprised the church allows such noise, I rent a hall out and I’m not even allowed to open the windows for an hour in case my music is too loud (at 6.30!)

ivykaty44 · 21/08/2019 22:48

The church is making money at the expense of your quality of life. At any time the church could stop renting out the space and you’d have that quality back again. What is the compromise?

EskiVodkaCranberry · 21/08/2019 22:59

Yes definitely start hosting frequent bbqs on a Saturday with music of course, rock band? I'll come and I'll bring a lovely fruit punch Grin

IncyWincyGrownUp · 21/08/2019 23:02

The church itself will be part of what is known as a circuit. The circuit is part of a district. If the minister isn’t being helpful it is well worth attempting to contact others in the circuit or district.

Nomorechickens · 21/08/2019 23:03

A few suggestions if the death metal sound system doesn't get you anywhere:
Get the council and Methodist Minister to come round on Saturday morning. Hold them hostage till midnight so they can benefit from the full experience.
Leaflet the attendees at the Methodist services asking for their support
Find out how much the SDA are paying to hire the hall, and see if you can find them a cheaper venue (on an industrial estate?)
As a last resort, turn the hose on them when they are hanging around in the street at midnight. (Probably not legal but tempting)

ivykaty44 · 21/08/2019 23:04

Steadyareyouready our local church hall has a noise detector- if the noise goes over a set level then the electric shuts of - then the electric box reset. The children running around shouting can turn of all the electric

ivykaty44 · 21/08/2019 23:08

Watering a front garden with a swishing automatic hose is legal...

Lougle · 21/08/2019 23:10

My church has a loud band which plays for approx. 1-1½ hours on a Sunday (30 mins-45 mins run through prior to the service, then 45 mins service). However, it can't be that loud, as when there's a motorbike convention or the annual carnival, we can't hear the band at all due to the other noise.

I do know that, years ago, when we had a youth group for both churched kids and local kids with no church background, some of the kids were very noisy on leaving, etc. Our church worked with the local PCSO to monitor the noise and change procedures to limit the (deliberate) noise that some of the young people made.

I think it's well reasonable to complain about noise such as revving engines (it's illegal to let a car idle whilst stationary - section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, enforcing clause 123 of the Highway Code). Likewise, if the noise of people mingling is excessive, it should be curtailed. I think that they are probably within their rights to have a defined period of worship, though. I do think they should be required to turn down the PA for the sermon if it's very loud.

glitterfarts · 21/08/2019 23:14

our local church hall has a noise detector- if the noise goes over a set level then the electric shuts of - then the electric box reset. The children running around shouting can turn of all the electric

^ this would be a fantastic solution to ask the methodist church to install. SDA will soon leave as they'll constantly have no power.

InvernessAdventure · 21/08/2019 23:15

Hmm at the number of people who don't seem to be reading the actual thread. The noise levels are definitely not reasonable and the OP has already explained what the deal is with other neighbours.

The SDAs are the problem, but I think your most fruitful avenue is to apply pressure to the Methodists, who are renting it out and are therefore in a position to end the arrangement if for some reason the money they get from it no longer seems so desirable. Most obviously, that would be the threat of legal costs, so I'd echo pp who suggest consulting a solicitor. The fact that environmental health have finally got around to reacting to your complaints and noise diary, and that you've clearly been measuring the noise levels and have factual data, backs up your position of reasonableness imo.

I'm not sure that I would go into the meeting threatening legal action, but I would certainly express yourself in terms of last chances and if things don't improve immediately then I'd proceed to a letter before action. It's not just nuisance and stress.There is lots of evidence that prolonged noise exposure has measurable health impacts: ec.europa.eu/environment/integration/research/newsalert/pdf/47si.pdf or whqlibdoc.who.int/hq/1999/a68672.pdf?ua=1 (that one's quite old now).

I've never had any dealings with the Methodist Church but certainly the CofE always have a keen appreciation of the vulnerability of their bottom line in any situation.

I am so sorry btw. This all sounds absolutely appalling and would unglue me, as it clearly has your neighbour.

EverTheConundrum · 21/08/2019 23:26

Why haven't Environmental Health installed recording devices?

MoaningMinnie1 · 21/08/2019 23:28

There is a church not too far away from me who used to have a charismatic meeting once a week which went on until midnight. Local residents complained about the noise which was unreasonable for night time. You can perhaps imagine - people laughing, singing and talking in tongues, a lot of them too. Then when it was over, people chatting on the way out, car doors banging and engines being revv'd up.

They changed it to a Sunday afternoon which was far better than at night and was not unreasonable.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 21/08/2019 23:29

I came on here fully expecting to say "Well, what do you expect moving in next to a church!", (my pet peeve is people who move next door to a church and complain about the bells, or next to a school and complain about the kids, or into the country and complain about cock-a-doodle-doo-ing") but having read your posts I feel that you have every right to be aggrieved at the late night/early morning noise week after week.

Have you spoken to the Methodist minister? Does s/he have any idea what a problem the Adventists are causing? And they certainly don't sound a very Christian bunch if they aren't able to see that slamming doors and shouted conversations in the early hours of the morning are not appropriate.

I do hope that you get the situation sorted out - it sounds awful.

TheTeenageYears · 21/08/2019 23:42

Sounds awful. I did a quick google and came across this:
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gospel-church-fined-over-noisy-services-7624636.html and asbhelp.co.uk/2016/05/25/church-challenge/

I have no ideas on the legalities but surely churches need to abide by laws just like any other premises. If you don't have any luck with the council it might be time to try the local paper to force their hand.

The fact the church was there before you bought the house is totally irrelevant IMO, it's not a case of we were here first so can do what the heck we like.

I am not particularly religious but would consider myself to have a strong moral code - I often wonder why there isn't more overlap between the two. This is a perfect example - attending a place of worship but having absolutely no empathy or understanding of how their collective behaviour affects others. It's very common sadly.