AIBU to ask you to clarify "reasonable" in my dispute with a church and noise?

[alittlequinnie]

My DH and I have a meeting next week with the Council and representatives of the Church next door.

We have had trouble with noise issues for the past four years.

The result of the meeting will probably be defined by the Council's idea of what you should "reasonably" expect as noise from a Church.

Would any of you be able to take the time to suggest what you would suggest would be "reasonable" to expect if you lived next door to a Church?

I don't want to give too much info yet because it needs to be an unbiased opinion.

To help though the Church is a very modern one - built in the 1980s / 1990's and a Methodist Church.

I'd be so grateful if you could let me know what you would expect if you lived next to a Church.

I think a lot of posters may not be familiar with the worship practices of Seventh Day Adventists. They are not really comparable to a bit of genteel bell-ringing or muffled organ playing at ten o’clock on a Sunday.

Yup, that definitely sounds unreasonable, especially the late nights and very early mornings, plus the overall volume. Good luck, OP.

Enviroment health dept at the local council might be good to ask their opinion?.

Sounds like its annoying needless noise.

We also lived next to a pub. The taxi noise - car doors slamming, engines running, shouting, smoking - hideous noise and part of the reason we moved to somewhere with no through traffic. That noise it not acceptable at all from a Church or anyone else. I think from 7 pm the should be very mindful of any noise they make when they have been noisy all day. I feel very sorry for you.

56 decibels very loud!
Gov.uk site says limits
“The permitted noise level using A-weighted decibels (the unit environmental noise is usually measured in) is:

34 dBA (decibels adjusted) if the underlying level of noise is no more than 24 dBA
10 dBA above the underlying level of noise if this is more than 24 dBA”

www.gov.uk/guidance/noise-nuisances-how-councils-deal-with-complaints

I expect church services to be any time from 8am to 9pm depending on the service. And not just on Sunday. During Holy Week, Easter, Advent and Christmas this will be different (Midnight services at these times of year).

I appreciate the noise from the church is annoying. But I wouldn't argue it is unexpected.

That noise does sound excessive and I don't think it's unreasonable to object to it.

They need to ensure that whoever they are renting their space to respects the community they're in.

I'd expect quite a bit of noise from a church especially quite a large, modern one. Lots of evening meetings, youth groups etc but this lot seem really out of order.

Its not great but its a public space so getting worked up about it seems futile.

I can think of 3 Seventh Day Adventist churches and each has a building set in the centre of a large plot with plenty of parking. The setting is fairly well away from housing.
Sounds like you are unlucky OP. Hopefully they are fund raising for a purpose built church.

We've had three meetings with the 7th dayers over the last four years. Outlining the issues and seeing what can be done about it.

They didn't really do much for the first three and we didn't get anywhere but then about a year ago they finally came into our house and garden to listen for themselves. (They had been invited many many times)

Two representiatives came over and one was all "there are buses going past so our noise doesn't matter" but the other chap said that he was genuinely shocked at how loud it was in our garden and also inside our house.

They went back inside the Church and started to adjust the volume of the amplification until it was at a level that we said was okay. They also said they would limit the amount of people hanging around in the street for hours and supervise the children.

This was all with the help of the Methodist Minister.

We were so pleased we really thought it was a breakthrough.

The next week was fine but the week after that back to normal - exactly how it had been for years.

We had another couple of meetings with them but their attitude has changed to one of "they can do what they like" and last week the Methodist Minister said that he felt the level of noise was "acceptable" for a short period of time". It was 56 decibels INSIDE our house and had been going on for more than an hour.

We have been keeping a noise diary for about 3 years and reporting to the council but it has taken them this long to actually set up a meeting.

Incidentally our road set up is REALLY strange and there is only us, the Church and one other neighbour. The other neighbour cries her eyes out about it all the time and her daughter has had to give up giving piano lessons on a Saturday because she coudln't hear her students over the noise.

We felt that the Council weren't taking us seriously because it was only one house complaining to the - if it had been a whole street then we felt it might have been different but reading all your responses not so sure.

When you go in to ask them if they can quieten it down the volume is so loud that you have to cup your hand over the other person's ear and shout to be heard - just like in a nightclub.

The Church is modern so hasn't got great thick granite walls etc - no soundproofing either.

I think you need to invite the Methodist minister round to your house for tea and cake on a Saturday afternoon so they can hear and see for themselves what's going on. They probably have no idea that there's that much noise and disruption.

Oh - sorry, cross-posted.

That is a totally unreasonable level of noise.
I would also invite the Methodist minister to come round on a Saturday to see what you have to put up with.
I'd contact the local council as well - you shouldn't be having to put up with groups hanging around outside late at night, shouting and generally causing a disturbance.
Also amplified music and prayers or preaching or whatever it is, is unreasonable if it is going on for hours on end. Living next door to a church I might expect that sort of thing for a couple of hours on a Sunday but not all day Saturday.
Again, it's a nuisance so complain to the council. You wouldn't be allowed to play a trumpet or something non-stop all day at the weekend if your neighbours could hear it.

I was going to say YABU assuming it was just 'normal' Sunday morning/weekday evening noise, occasional bell ringing, etc.

56 decibels in your garden and noise at 5am is definitely unreasonable.

YANBU. Our local church lets their hall out on a Sunday to a group that sound like yours. We pass them on the way to our mums for Sunday lunch. The noise is unbearable, they're standing on the pavement and don't move to let anyone out of the way, park like arseholes. Not what Jesus would have intended, I'm sure!

Unfortunately the Methodist Minister likes the revenue he gets on a Saturday so is not really unbiased!

l used to live in a small village. The church bells used to ring early on Sunday mornings. l can't say it disturbed me particularly, but l did wonder if it would have been allowed if it had been an 'alternative' faith making that kind of noise (l'm a pagan, so l think that's a reasonable 'wonder') at that time on a Sunday morning.

Just seen your last update. That is outrageous. I really feel for you, and I hope something is done ASAP.

It's a bit unrelated but this gives you an idea of the sort of group they are.

They decided to load up a coach on the zig zags - look where they are parked....

If the church was already there when you moved in then I'd say you need to suck it up. Churches do make noise sometimes. It's something you should have considered as a factor.

If they were just taking Psalms 150:3-6 a bit too seriously during a church service at a normal time that would be one thing but all that racket at all hours of the night is not loving thy neighbour or doing as they would be done by.

I grew up living directly opposite a Protestant church (my parents were Catholics, so not my family's church). There were the regular church services Saturday evening and Sunday morning (churchbells at 9 am right outside my window, then again at 10 or so), special services on certain days and a good amount of weddings. Before and after services, there were people talking, car doors slamming etc. And on one memorable occasion, when the head of the city emergency dispatchers got married, we had around 20 ambulances and fire engines lined up - and they all switched on their sirens when the bride and groom came out of the church.

The church also had very active youth groups, so there were BBQs and parties at least two or three weekends per month, but they always reduced the noise after 10 or 11 pm.

The church bells would also ring in the hours and rang for several minutes at noon and 6 pm.

We considered all of this reasonable and never complained, although other neighbours did (nothing changed as it was all within noise regulations). My family even defended the youth groups against complaints as we did not think anything wrong with the noise levels and they were very respectful. (And guess who were the first to offer help when a freak hailstorm destroyed my parents' garden centre!) I guess it was a matter of being used it - and the church was there before my family moved there, so they knew what to expect. My father still lives there, but local noise regulations have changed and it is more quiet now - I miss the bells and the people when I visit.

I don’t think you expected anyone to say that that was a reasonable amount of noise from a church surely?

I would be furious. It’s rude and disrespectful to the neighbours. Good luck with your complaint and I hope you get somewhere with it. I know that nightclubs and other venues have to respect the locals and I don’t see why this is any different.

YANBU. I hope you manage to make some headway with your complaint.

By this point I'd be playing Slipknot at great volume, in my garden, every Saturday, until they got the point.
But I'm petty.