AIBU to ask you to clarify "reasonable" in my dispute with a church and noise?

[alittlequinnie]

My DH and I have a meeting next week with the Council and representatives of the Church next door.

We have had trouble with noise issues for the past four years.

The result of the meeting will probably be defined by the Council's idea of what you should "reasonably" expect as noise from a Church.

Would any of you be able to take the time to suggest what you would suggest would be "reasonable" to expect if you lived next door to a Church?

I don't want to give too much info yet because it needs to be an unbiased opinion.

To help though the Church is a very modern one - built in the 1980s / 1990's and a Methodist Church.

I'd be so grateful if you could let me know what you would expect if you lived next to a Church.

Do you think they use the church’s wifi to stream their music to the speaker system? Might the preachers microphone be wireless? If so, and you can get a nice methodist person to let you know the password for their wifi network, you can probably keep turning their speakers on and off and on and off, and play bursts of oompah music. Not enough to make them suspect you, but enough to drive them crazy. They might then upsticks to a new location (in an industrial park far far away)

Also, attack the parking issue head on, go guerilla warfare on them, get them so frustrated from so many different points that they just move out or risk loosing church members to a different congregation

THEY SOUND HORRENDOUS! SDA sound like the least Christian types imaginable. You minister is the one to blame however as he is choosing his revenue over your peace and that is hardly Christian either.

Sorry, posted too soon.

Since they already dont like you, you have nothing to loose from an outright fight

Small suggestion; you say you are having trouble finding out who is in charge; does the church have a website? Most do these days, with page of information along the lines of "Meet Our Team", which might give you a useful handle. Failing that, SDA HQ will probably have some sort of register of their establishments. Or, really old-fashioned, try Yellow Pages, Places of Worship, for contact details. (Seriously old-school, I know)
I feel your pain; I used to worship at a (quite sedate) Anglican church which rented out its church hall to a group who seemed to work on the basic premise that God was deaf; if in doubt, whack another tambourine to attract His attention. Eventually, the tenancy was discontinued, as the disturbance was so great, and causing problems for the hosting Anglicans.

I really feel for you - a building a street away from us was used by a similar church a few years ago and the noise all weekend was horrific. It made our windows shake and even when they were closed, the TV couldn't be heard over the noise coming from the church's over enthusiastic amplification system. I made a couple of reports to the noise team at the council and not long afterwards, the church moved out. Another church uses it now but has better command of its sound system.

Is there a community police team you could contact re: the intimidating and anti-social behaviour of the congregation?

Keep it factual, legal and any reference to financial stuff would be good.

I would be quite happy in suggesting neighbours suing for loss of income for the piano lessons. A quick rough estimate would be say £25 per hour, 4 hours per Saturday on say 46 weeks per year (allowing for holidays, etc) for 4 years. Nearly £20,000. I bet they'd be a little worried then.

Sticking to factual and financial stuff sidesteps any attempts they may make of you being against religious groups or being racist.

I wonder if a council member is part of this SDA church?
Extremely unlikely. I’m guessing the council has figured that legal fights with religious entities rarely ends well. If it feels threatened the SDA will put significant legal resource behind this. Generally a lot of legal expertise in-congregation (not sure about this church, set-up seems very odd) and the Conference will back up with strong legal support. If they feel at all threatened they will come out swinging.

The SDA right to worship doesn’t trump laws and bylaws let alone Christian values.
That may be the way you see it but not the way the SDA church sees it . Also, there will be the aspect of their worship encompassing Christian values as opposed to what you consider to be ‘normal’ so this will be turned around in any argument.

The SDA aren’t a main stream Christian group. I’ve heard them described as a cult. Some of their teachings are not in accordance with main stream Christian views.
If the teachings were in accordance with mainstream views then they would be called Catholics or Anglicans ffs .

OP, your main problem is that they will not listen to you as you don’t ‘speak their language’. You will get nowhere unless using a ‘translator’.

Oh, and set the DJ stuff up to play Rammstein. If I were feeling really bad, it would be Lindemann as the first as album is in English and explicit.😊

Does the church have trustees and are they aware of the situation? Might be worth seeing if they have any jurisdiction. Especially if you assure them the general use is fine but this group in particular are abusing the church's good nature.

Hoppingpavlova
What?!
She doesn't need a translator what are you on about?
And there are plenty of mainstream Christian churches that aren't anglican or catholic.

I don't think you sound unreasonable. You moved next to a Methodist church. You might not have chosen to live next door to a Seventh Day Adventist one.

We live very near a small church and were regularly blocked in by people (usually elderly with mobility issues) parking across our drive. Naturally we didn't feel great about complaining but it was a real problem because we needed access during those times. The priest must have had a gentle word because it stopped happening and goodwill was restored.

Hopefully the church administration will be receptive to your concerns and can impose some restrictions. If not, you may have to move.

OP just google it!

Adventist link:
adventist.uk/who-we-are/our-structure/

My poor friend lives opposite such a church. I live three streets away and at weekends until 10/11pm I can hear amplified preaching loud enough to make out most of the words and to actually feel the heavy bass that accompanies the singing. This goes on for ten hours during the summer. It's horrendous. The congregation park their cars on the pavements either side so you can just about squeeze through. Pushchairs, trolleys, etc don't fit and people have to walk in the road to get around their cars. This is London, it's a v busy road with cars and double decker buses zooming up and down. It's v dangerous.

The community have complained for five years. The meetings are fewer bit they still happen twice a week. It blights the lives of everyone within a 200 metre radius and that's an awful lot of people. When asked to turn the volume down, people have been met with aggression and threats. No idea what church it is, whether it's SDA or not, but they are pretty much hated in my area.

Methodist website www.methodist.org.uk/for-ministers-and-office-holders/governance/complaints-and-discipline/

www.methodist.org.uk/about-us/connect/other-methodist-websites/

I know the kind of noise you mean and it can be very very loud

Someone has to develop some better noise blocking solutions in the long run, because society's getting louder and louder, and people are rude.

I've found that a combination of earplugs and noise-reducing headphones playing white noise can often drown this stuff out - but it's no way to live. And it doesn't stop the vibrations you can feel through furniture.

I'd expect daily & weekend services & accompanying noise. I'd then add on weddings & playgroups, fitness groups & anything a church hall usually offers to the community (renting it for family & kids parties etc). As it was there before you, they're going to use the 'you knew it was there & therefore what to expect line'.

I’d expect singing, voices speaking, crowds of people outside for events like weddings, bell ringing, maybe some events in the church hall if there is one. I’d consider all reasonable.

Invite both the Methodist minister and your local councillor or mp round on a Saturday.
Church or nightclub, the disturbance is unacceptable.
I went to a wedding venue in a remote farm setting and they had noise and time restrictions. Noise was monitored via a box on the wall that flashed red when db were exceeded. It was literally miles from civilisation!
The MM must take responsibility for his renters. He chose to let to them and he must deal with the nuisance caused. The council must install recording devices to measure the noise levels and can put pressure on the church to take action to stop nuisance noise.
It should make absolutely no difference to your rights to live peacefully that there are only two houses. Nor is it about religion. It is about premises being rented out to an inconsiderate and disrespectful group of people and that is the responsibility of the landlord.
Where is his impact assessment, highway safety assessment, noise assessment and risk assessment?

OP, my husband is an independent acoustic consultant and has reported on several cases like this, you are not alone. I'll PM you

Gods you've been patient. If it were me I'd be painting "SDA is a cult" on a bedsheet from the window and sounding an airhorn every 2 minutes by now. Awful people.

Local councils are excellent at doing nothing.

I emailed the councils ombudsman about my local councils failure to adequately deal with my numerous official complaints. Lo and behold I had an apology letter from the council and the issue resolved within a week! That was after continuous complaints to the council for 15 months.

Go to the ombudsman!

I live next door to a church in a large village/small town in the SE

Noise:
2.5hrs of bell practice one evening a week
Sunday morning service (with bells)
Funerals/weddings/christenings - about 2 a week (more in summer) which means requests for residents not to park on our road (only access to church)
1 fete a year
1 evening event a month on average with brass bands or opera singers or whatever.

We live less than 30 metres from the bell tower so you do have to turn the volume up on the TV and you could join in the Sunday service without leaving your bed - but the church has been there for hundreds of years and we factored in the noise and the parking issues before we bought (and took out chancel repair insurance!)

We’re both atheists so don’t even attend but get on very well with the vicar.

www.google.com/search?q=airhorn&client=ms-android-motorola-rev2&prmd=vsin&source=lnms&tbm=shop&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiPrYjD-5bkAhXHTBUIHanUCUwQ_AUoAnoECA8QAg