...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

In my experience with grandparents and others there have been a few years where they have either early stages of dementia (so not violent, not fully incontinent) on a gradual decline or are mentally agile but very unsteady on their feet.

Yes and you try and get some help when they have entered the worst phases. But not bad enough for outside care. Especially, if you are expected to pay for it.

I talk to carers every day that aee at breaking point. They need urgent respite (that means going into a home,OP) as they just can't cope. Carer stress is real and not to be sniffed at. And btw, ambulance services aren't any more equipped to deal with falls than you are. That's why equipment is needed. Equipment = space and changing a lot of things at home to accommodate. My parents have told me they will go into a home. And btw they don't live together so I'd be ferrying shopping from one part of the country to another. No thanks.

So you say your DH is the one that will have the responsibility for caring for your ILs, yet he cannot be that close go them if he'd be happy to emigrate. Are you sure that your DH is fully on board with your care plans?

He's very close to them and their only child but has previously lived abroad.

I'm very close to my DM but I would emigrate, I already live 200 miles away.

Basically IMO DH was being pretty thoughtless which I guess is my point, I don't get why someone who loves his parents so much will be so thoughtless when it comes to this one thing - denial?

We've spoken about it since and he's fine with the plans. That being said he's laid back to the point of not thinking things through sometimes so we would have to see how he finds it in reality. He's a naturally caring person so as long as we would consider a care home once any specialist care was needed he thinks he would be happy to do it.

Apologies if you've answered this already OP (I have skimmed the whole thread, but not seen it in your responses) but how old are you now? Do you have children or not? If so, how old are they?

Because while your sentiments are admirable, they are also wildly impractical.

These 'little sacrifices' you mention of daily popping in after work every day, doing the elderly relatives shopping for them every week, or doing their housework gardening every weekend are actually the fast road to a marriage, and often a mental health, breakdown when you're married with children who are primary and secondary aged, and a DH who needs his downtime from a high-powered job at the weekend, and you who also needs the downtime from working/being a mum (which is two full-time jobs, incidentally).

What about school concerts? Parents' evenings? Preparing work at home if you're - say - a teacher who needs to work every evening and every weekend and feed/look after their own family who are young/school-aged/doing A Levels etc?

Basically, some people 'don't want to' because they know everyone would end up in a mess. And that benefits no one.

But if you could give us a rough idea of your reality right now, then those of us who are older (and wiser) with actually - you know - real life experience of being parents ourselves of children/young adults can advise you more accurately.

Oh, that inheritance from the house? Don't bank on it. You 'can' bank on being left nothing at all - that much is the only guarantee you have when the time comes. Everything else is on a wing and a prayer - so I'd get that private pension sorted asap for your DH. You're going to need it.

Let me talk you through a situation which arose 2 months ago. I received a phone call from my DB at 10pm to say that my elderly DM was being admitted to hospital. She has a history of major surgery and the paramedics suspected a heart attack. At 5am the next morning I drove 210 miles, met my DF and drove him back down to the hospital. Luckily my DM was released later that day, but it was a scare. I had work commitments the next day 100 miles in the opposite direction. I had had to ensure I had everything available for work before leaving at 5am, book myself into a hotel and drive there after settling my mum back in at home.

Yup, I emigrated despite my mother being 80 years old. And she was fully on board with that.

Because she raised me to believe that we have to do the right thing for our immediate family unit, particularly financially, and if push came to shove, you went where the money and the job making you most able to provide for your family was.

I would most probably have had more reservations if my sister and niece didn't live nearby. The three of them are very close, Mum has helped out a lot with my sister and niece, and they in turn help her out, now she needs it more. She's very lucky to have them, and so are we.

I also, perhaps, have a clearer and more realistic idea of life as parents get older (and therefore a better plan) than OP, having had the experience I did as a young person helping my mother with carrying out Dad's caring responsibilities with his mother.

Why do you think care home (presuming of a good standard) is a worse option than people run ragged, plus a combination of carers dropping in for a small fraction of the day? Why are you so convinced that that is the case? And why on earth are you so adamant that you should get to make decisions for your husbands parents care?

Our next house (in about three years, when we remortgage) will have a granny flat. My mum will be 72 and whilst she’s in good health now, it’s so we can keep an eye on her if things do decline so that hopefully she’ll never have to go into care. We also want her to have company whilst still
Retaining her own privacy.

*Weekly shop can be done whenever you do your own shop or online for delivery at the weekend

Helping around the house/garden can be done at the weekend

Daily visits if that's what is needed can be done straight after work*

So if you have children at home, a partner, pets - when are you going to see them? When you get home (late) having detoured god knows how long and how far to drop in on your parents.

At the weekend when you only have one free day because you've spent a whole day doing your parent's garden and housework?

What happens when you're ill yourself? In hospital? One of your children is ill and needs you? You have a sick grand-child and your adult child also needs some help so THEY can go to work? What happens when your partner is ill/in hospital?

Daily visits my arse. Only if you're single with no pets and no life.

Sorry, pressed post too soon. The next day I worked a full day and drove another 120 miles to get home. I briefly saw my DD & DH. The next day I had to take a day of holiday for my FIL's monthly chemotherapy appointment. That also involves travel costs of around £60. DH and I have to juggle our diaries each month so that one of us can do it.

Meanwhile we both work full time, have at least another 15 -30 years before we can retire and have careers to maintain, bills to pay and a teenager to support.

Your niaivity is astounding.

They would (by their own admission) prefer that their parents went into a care home, not because they need specialist care or because they aren't in the circumstances to help, but because they don't want to help

OP I don't know anyone who has done this without lots of agonising and feeling immense guilt. Putting your parent in a care home does not compare in any way to the decision to putting your dog in kennels when going on holidays. Anyone I know that has been through this has been absolutely heartbroken and at their wits end.

There is also the responsibility of choosing a good home, which is pretty hard to find, organising the finances, dealing with NHS and council funding assessments and endless administrative stuff. It is not an easy road to go down believe me.

15-20 years, unless the government have their way!

I'm really confused. What do you mean by "help"?

Your latest posts seem to mean a variety of helping financially, to having parents at home or doing things for them.

I'll give you an example. My mum wanted to travel to a holiday place recently. Her first thought was asking me to drive her there (3 hours each way). Eventually she got my sibling to drive her there on his way to a place not very far (30 min off way). For some reason she wasn't considering doing what she did previously, which was take a taxi (which she can fully afford here), or taking public transport and just have people help at either end.

I'm sure she'd complain to you that I was unwilling to "help her". In fact, she told me that often nobody cares for her at weekends, when most weekends I take her shopping and spend some time with her.
She makes anyone's drama her own and tends to take over or criticise most things her children do, down to her grandchildren.
TBH, I'm not the most willing person to help her if it means having her in my home and my other siblings even less.

I helped care for my nan with dementia my dad has made it clear he does not want his daughters caring for him I think my mom is anking on her partner or my daughter caring for her but her partner is an alcoholic and my daughter has no interest in her as she picked the alcoholic over family

OP, you've admitted that your DH doesn't earn much and hasn't saved from his pension, and will give up work soon, and that you are expecting an inheritance from the sale of the parents' house to make up for this.

I think its pretty abhorrent to hang around your parents waiting for them to sell their house to make up your DH's failure to work very hard in life!

You've also admitted that you've given yourselves a 3 hour commute by moving before they even need care.

You really have nothing better to do with your lives than hang around your parents waiting for them to become infirm so you can be first in line for any inheritance?

What a ridiculous way to live your lives!

Keep up that self-justification though.

I disagree that this isn't feasible with a FT job. It means making sacrifices - yes. But it's feasible.

Well, it depends on your definition of feasible, doesn't it?

Yes, it probably is feasible if your parents live around the corner and only require 30 minutes of your time twice a week, but when you already get home from work at 7pm and your parents live another hour away in each direction, it's not going to be possible to go over everyday, no matter how many "sacrifices" you might be able to make.

And no, I'm not prepared to give up all my free time/weekends/evenings to help my parents because it would be to the detriment of my own health, family and happiness. That doesn't make me selfish, it makes me human.

I don't think you give a shit, though. Your agenda is basically "if you don't want to care for your parents you're horrible/selfish/unwilling to make sacrifices and it doesn't matter if it'll make you miserable/destroy your marriage you should do it anyway."

Who is carrying it in and unpacking it? People may not have 2 hours to sit in their parents house for a shop.

Unless someone is working 6 days a week who can't make time for this at the weekend? Yes, it may mean giving up whatever you would normally do for those two hours I realise that...

Gatdening can be done at weekends yes. But you will also have your own garden to do. And stuff in your own house. And actually spend time with your kids. Oh and find some down time to face the coming week.

Yes, it will be hard work.

Daily visits if that's what is needed can be done straight after work

It's not very common to have school age children at the same time as needing to do elder care. Of course there will be exceptions (like us where children have come late) but most people would have teenagers so no need to help with homework or do a bedtime routine.

I think it would be difficult as a single parent and I definitely wouldn't say a single parent would be selfish for not doing daily visits but with two parents it is possible.

One does the visit to parents while the other does the dinner/chores at home and sees the teen(s). Eat while chatting/TV. Then bed by 10.30pm (we are up at 5.45am). The two parents rotate who is doing elder care and who is home so both get time with the teen(s).

That's obviously only for people who are only children (like me & DH). With siblings there would be less required in this particular scenario.

I'm not saying this is possible for everyone. But it's possible for a lot of people I know who wouldn't be willing to do it.

If they're not willing to think about doing it or even try it because it's hard work and involves sacrifices then yes, I think that's a bit selfish. Especially if they are fine to leave siblings to do it all and don't even feel embarrassed.

I've got a great idea. Let's leave OP in her judgemental cloud cuckoo land, while the rest of us get on with living in the real world. How about it?

my mum - 83 - lives 600 miles away, she is recovering from cancer and does not want to move down here, or even fly down here any more. Which I understand... I - 55 - am 600 miles away from her and recovering from a heart attack and do not want to move up there or fly up there any more either. (I work part time and have a husband, 2 teenaged daughters and a dog and I am not going to "get better")

"help" can be said easily, but actually doing it can be damn near impossible. How do you suggest we resolve it?

Depends.

I would cross the road if my egg donor was on fire. She can die alone and in pain for all I care.

If My dad needed help, I'd be there as much as possible. He already has bad health and it may be more than I could do for him though so circumstances would dictate what would happen.

OP I kinda agree and disagree. I agree that many people like your DH do not think about this when they move away.

BUT the pace of life, job security, house prices, education pressures have changed. Some People face a choice of being unemployed and moving away. House prices and rents can mean 2 people working which means it is difficult to take time off for appts etc. You may be in a job where it is easy to take leave but many people are not. Some people cannot even take time off for their own health and some employers are awful with requirements for sick notes after even 1-2 days off.

As a society we have not recognised the sterling work of SAHMs of previous generations. For childcare and maternity leave there has been some progress. Paternity leave is getting better. We need the same for elderly care or care for people with health issues or disabilities - people not to be discriminated against for caring. If we had a return of national service, everyone (suitable) should do a placement in care (though would need supervision so inappropriate people are not allowed to abuse).

Hmm. It's tricky. My parents didn't do a great job of looking after us growing up. I know the Seventies were different but really our basic physical and emotional needs were never met and there was a lot of emotional abuse.

When I was extremely ill and so was DS2 post natally, they lived near by but never offered to help. They babysat two or three times in the DCs life, and one of those, booked six months in advance because it was such a major event they tried to wriggle out of because a friend had last minute invited them to pop round for supper. They were just as bad with my sister and offered her no support even though they lived near by (and retired at 55 on a great pension!) So they've basically just been people of leisure for thirty years without making an effort at all. They are rich but have offered us no help financially. All this is fine. It's their prerogative. But now they are old and summon us from all corners of the country to jump to their barked orders I just think, Nah, mate. Too late.You showed no love for me and my love for you which was once huge has all dried up. You have loads of money you've hoarded all your life, spending it only ever on your selves, so you can pay for care.

I know I'm a bitter old witch about my parents but since treating them the way they treat others I've never felt calmer or saner. It's sad. I wish it was different. I'd love to feel the deep love I used to have for them. But they always ignored it and it withered away.

If they're not willing to think about doing it or even try it because it's hard work and involves sacrifices then yes, I think that's a bit selfish. Especially if they are fine to leave siblings to do it all and don't even feel embarrassed.

I'm an only child - it is not my job to care for my parents in their dotage. Of course I'll visit, help with the food shop, take them to appointments but only if I am free to do so. I'm not prepared to sacrifice my job, my marriage or my time with my children. I need downtime and free time for my own mental health. I don't care if you think that makes me selfish.

But, if you are happy to do those things, you go right on ahead. Nobody is stopping you. But I think it's fucking rude to come on here and tell people they're shitty and selfish for not doing the same.

Yes, it will be hard work

I'd love you to try it for a month or two. Then let us know.

Teenagers aren't necessarily easier than younger children. Most people actually say more work. You need time for them, as they'll reach out when you least expect them.

And no point ruining your marriage.

Unless someone is working 6 days a week who can't make time for this at the weekend? Yes, it may mean giving up whatever you would normally do for those two hours I realise that..

So you will book it enough advance to get a weekend slot? Great, gardening, cleaning, cooking and sorting out shopping all taken up one day of your weekend.

Yes, it will be hard work.

That's a huge under estimation of not having proper downtime with your kids for years on end.

It's not very common to have school age children at the same time as needing to do elder care. Of course there will be exceptions (like us where children have come late) but most people would have teenagers so no need to help with homework or do a bedtime routine.

Yes it is common. More often than not the parents in the middle trying to care for 2 generations reach breaking point. Physically and mentally.

Why do you assume teenagers dont need someone at home. Lots of parents will tell you their teenagers have needed them for support in the difficult teenage years. Again, what grandparent wants their grandchildren lives being negatively impacted for their care?

One does the visit to parents while the other does the dinner/chores at home and sees the teen(s). Eat while chatting/TV. Then bed by 10.30pm (we are up at 5.45am). The two parents rotate who is doing elder care and who is home so both get time with the teen(s).

That's assuming care happens when you have teens not before. And no family time during the week? That's not great either.

You have no clue, op, no clue.