...to think that children should look after elderly parents?

[wheresmymojo]

It's not a TAAT but inspired by another thread.

It seems to be a general trend that people feel like they shouldn't have any duty/obligation to care for their elderly parents anymore.

Partly I recognise that this is because societal trends make it harder to do elder care than it used to be - it's quite common to have two full time workers, be living quite far from your parents, still have DC to care for at the same time due to later births, etc.

I find it odd though that anyone wouldn't want to care for their elderly parents and find a way to make it happen.

So for example, we have just moved to live near to DH's parents who are in their 70s as while they don't need any help now, we know they will at some point in the next 10yrs.

My DM is very young (56!) so definitely doesn't need any help. I live 200 miles away but have already had the discussion that when she is elderly I'd like her to come and live with us.

I feel like I'm in the minority though these days?

I realise there are of course exceptions - any parental abuse and there will always be people who have very complex situations that mean it isn't possible (e.g. can't afford to move, already have children of their own with special needs, etc).

But I think it's sad that the average person either (a) thinks of it as an obligation/burden that they don't want to do or (b) thinks they don't have any obligation at all.

You've got no idea OP because you're still relatively young and can't imagine being menopausal and exhausted yourself. At that stage you may not have the energy to look after a parent in their nineties while working, having teen children and when you're approaching your sixties. It's not just popping in, it's ongoing, exhausting care. And elderly people who have complex needs can get more and more awkward as they age (not everyone, but many).

That is one way in which I am privileged as hopefully the property we inherit will mean it covers the fact that DH has no pension

Yep. And what if you divorce and SAHD gets most of the house in the divorce and/or a share of your pension? To compensate for his lost earnings?

And yeah, I am sure your dh will find being a sahd easy, whilst have 1 maybe 2 elderly relatives to also look after who need lots of care.

And at weekends, you wont be spending time with your kids. Just taking over caring from dh. So you work all week, then spend all weekend caring for his parents or your mum?

Or will he just be able to shift some if the care to you and you share on weekends.

So busy all week with work or caring. Both busy all weekend sharing caring. Where do you kids fit in on that?

What if you want to do something with the kids, but the elderly relatives are quite bad enough to get help from outside agencies. But not well enough to be left alone.

You are happy with your kids staying in all weekend, or only able to go out with one parent while the other stays home?

You clearly have jumped to a judgment and have no idea what caring for an elderly relative entails. Not the impact on everyone in the same household.

Can I have some clarification on your current circumstances please?
Are you questioning others decisions regarding caring for elderly family members, when you've not actually been the primary carer for one of your own? And are you child free at the moment, but planning on having kids in the future? While working full time. And being a carer?

I admit I haven’t read the whole thread.

I always thought I would look after my mum at home with me until she died.

And then I had a disabled child.

And then I became disabled myself.

And then my dh became diagnosed with severe depression.

And then to top it all off my relationship with my mum completely deteriorated (she had long standing mental health issues).

And then... she was diagnosed with terminal bowel cancer on top of copd and Crohn’s disease.

So yeah my plans went out of the window and she ended up in a nursing home under NHS continuing care - which wasn’t right at all because it was mainly for people with severe dementia but it was the only option we had at the time. She died in March.

If someone had told me even 5/10 years ago that this was what was going to happen I would have been horrified.

You just never know how life is going to change.

That inherited property you’re counting on may all be needed to offset carers wages or care home fees for 2 seniors. Don’t count your chickens.

I do hope you’re in your early 20s and this is all the naïveté of youth.
Otherwise you’re coming across at judgemental, wilfully obtuse and determined to miss the point.

If my parents weren't such selfish eople maybe I would. But decades of selfishness they can reap what they've sown.

My granny on the other hand I'll happily care for even if it means juggling my children a bit

Good for you OP but when one of your DPs develop dementia and live for 10 years with it come back and start a new thread because you’re talking about elderly parents as if all they need is a natter and a cup of tea now and again.

My aunt died looking after her DH with dementia. Caring for him drove her into the ground with stress. I also have an acquaintance who has aged considerably and has developed depression having put her life on hold to look after her mother who’s become violent with dementia.

Life expectancy has gone up but it often means people live far longer with ill health, most people aren’t equipped to look after an 80 year old for 10 years with severe needs.

I will not allow my DC to give up their lives to wipe my arse for 20 years. I am putting away money to cover myself for care including paying for my own funeral. It will mean the inheritance is smaller but that’s how it is. The only thing I expect are regular calls and visits but I didn’t have them to sacrifice the prime of their lives for me.

• You also seem to be confused with actual care work and just helping out. Most people will help where they can with their elderly parents and make sure that they are looked after but that is a different game to actual day to day care.*

Just got to this post. Possibly explains some of the responses.

When I said 'care for elderly parents' I didn't mean 'care' in the sense of '24/7 care in the manner of professional care work'.

I meant 'care' in the general sense.

So for example, in my Nan's case there was a ten year period over which some form of 'general care' was needed.

Starting with just help around the house, doing weekly shopping, gardening etc.

Then adding in driving to appointments and other things once no driving licence.

Then adding in daily visits to make food, check they're okay, respond to any alarms.

Then arranging carers as needs progressed. Having them stay for a few weeks or so if ill.

Perhaps (if actually possible) having them live with you once they get to the point that they could do with more hands on help than it's possible to do from a different house like helping to the loo (but still able to wipe themselves), needing help with all meals, too unsteady on their feet to easily walk back to their seat with a cup of tea because they're using a frame, needing help to get in and out of the bed.

Once 24/7 care is needed because of dementia or other complex medical issues then I agree that a specialist home is better.

These are the kind of things the people I mentioned don't want to do (not because they can't). They're also the kind of things I hear about second hand when one sibling is doing all of the work and the others aren't.

YABU. Flip it round. There's no way I would expect my children to look after me in my old age. I want them to enjoy their lives, not spend their time wiping my backside. I didn't have them so they could look after me.

How do I look after my elderly parents when I work full time, no live in partner? I struggle sometimes in the evenings as I have arthritis. I'm 51.

No, I don’t think people SHOULD look after their parents in terms of full care. The stress mentally, physically and financially is a burden nobody should be forced or blackmailed in to. They can absolutely want to, and that is something that should be agreed with their parent.

Of course I feel that spending time with them and doing smaller acts like going shopping for/with them, making sure their finances are secure (with the parent’s own money) and spending time with them, is something people who have a good relationship with their parents should want to do.
However you don’t (well shouldn’t really) have children so you have someone to care for you in your old age, and nobody should feel obliged to watch their elderly parents 24/7 just because they chose to have them.
Parents should look after their young children, and once those children have left home any caring done by either party should be because they WANT to not because they have to. Parents are the only ones who made a choice in the beginning, and once those responsibilities are up as children are grown and have permanently left home, everything should be voluntary.
I wonder how many people who say that children should care for their elderly parents, also say that their parents shouldn’t have to help out with childcare for their GC in any way shape or form as they’ve ‘done their time’ and they aren’t their children?

My dad died a couple of years ago at 88. Up until he was about 82 he managed very well living by himself, was active, managed his vegetable garden and looked after himself.
We live 5.5 hours away. As he grew frailer we visited for the weekend once a month to sort out the housework, house maintenance etc. He wouldn’t contemplate carers or moving to sheltered accommodation but did have someone come in to do his laundry once a week.
This progressed to us making the journey every other week. Finishing work at 5pm and driving up the
motorway for 5.5 hours (traffic depending) and then spending the weekend cooking, cleaning etc and making the return journey on Sunday afternoon to be ready for work on Monday.
It was exhausting (and expensive as we couldn’t really stay with him so had to stay in the Premier Inn down the road). We couldn’t have moved house to be closer and he didn't want to move to us - he would have lost his social network and end up sitting at home lonely while we were at work.
I loved him to bits and didn’t feel ‘obliged’ in anyway but it was draining and we were always tired and didn’t seem to do anything else - our weekends at home were taken up with catching up with our own washing etc.
When he was taken into hospital we did the trip every weekend and thankfully were there when he died.
I wouldn’t have done any different but I can’t stress how difficult it was and I certainly wouldn’t judge anyone who felt they couldn’t manage it.

🤯

@Mummyoflittledragon

• My fil is in his 80’s. My mother will be soon too. Both are relatively healthy and have more energy than me. I’m chronically ill. Had two extensive surgeries relatively recently from which I’m nowhere near recovered.

I am disabled. They are not. I have a dependant child. They do not. struggle on and dh even contemplated giving up work to be my carer.

How do you suggest I make that happen?*

I'm not suggesting you make that happen. Obviously I wasn't clear enough but I am talking about people who don't want to do anything.

My OP said I don't understand why anyone (abusive parents aside) wouldn't want to help their parents. That isn't judging people who want to but aren't in the circumstances to do so.

My DM, who I love dearly, needs 24 hour nursing level care. I am only in my 40s with a 12 year old child, the main breadwinner and live 2 hours away. There’s absolutely no way I (or my two siblings) could care for her. I support her and DF emotionally with frequent visits and am in close contact with her medical team.
Life’s far too complex and unpredictable to make general statements about such matters.

@wheresmymojo

Not RTFT coz can't be arsed sorry..... Too many pages!

But I agree with you... as long as the males in the family, contribute to the care of the elderly in the family as much as the females do.

Because in EVERY FAMILY I HAVE EVER KNOWN, the donkeywork and drudgery (and caring for other family members,) ALWAYS falls to the females. Never known any family where the males do more 'care work' than the females in the family. Never. Not one.

I have de-lurked having RTFT because this is a subject very pertinent to my life at the moment.

Phrase that encapsulates the OP's attitude quite nicely in my opinion is "the way to hell is paved by good intentions."

I spent my teenage years living with my parents in my grandmothers (spacious) flat - her needs were driven by COPD and associated frailty - no demntia thank God, but even so it did put a strain on all family relationships.

My partner and I are noth only children and we have six parents between us - the laundry list goes like this:

My DM - terminal gynaecological cancer (currently managed well and she is very tired but self-sufficient - we live close enough to be able to drop everything as does my adult son - her only grandchild).

My DF - splenic lymphoma, heart issues - four stents down so far - new lymphomas being treated on a "wait and see basis" - he will be 80 this year. reasonably chipper, still drives, is local.

My DSM - long term sever mental health condition only revealed in the last ten years after it's excellent management got de-railed by a medication change - leading to two sectionings and precipitating my fathers first massive heart attack as he was her carer - I was assisting but had teenagers doing GCSE's and was caring for my now ex -H who was a disabled biker....... my DSM now has the onset of vascular dementia......

D"FIL" - stable after throat cancer, being assessed for stomach cancer - frail and a bit of an alcoholic.

D"SMIL" - cares for above - they have got themselves into warden assisted accomodation and live Home Counties way about two / three hours from us. Only one major crisis requiring emergency trips in the last few years thankfully.

D"MIL" - This one was the kicker - lived with us for 18 months after a diagnosis of Alzheimer's - it took about 6 months of persuasion and weekly trips for my DP as she lived on the IOW to persuade her that she could no longer live alone (lack of self-care and depression of diagnosis plus inability to mane appliances even though she was still choerent and had capacity). We lived in a "shared house" with my adult sons and another lodger who helped when they could, I was working full time up until she arrived, then went part-time as my DP has a flexible nich market job and works afternoons anyway - I worked mornings and then came back to cover afternoons. As it became obvious she could no longer be alone for even short periods as it was distressing for her, we opened a retail outlet so i would have a "job" to fall back on and be able to have her with me - also good for socialisation and stimulation. All sounds good, no? Actually - no. Disturbed nights. Endless looping conversations about how shit having Alzheimers is. Suicidal thoughts. We did a ten week carers course. On the first session, as the ten people in the room all introduced themselves and explained a bit about their situation the first sounds that came out of their mouths were sobs. We were the youngest, in our late 40s.

At the 18 month mark, as incontinence kicked in and ten months of the shop situation had deteriorated as she started wandering and falling even on safe surfaces, we arranged residentail care. Shit, i can't even write this without wanting to howl at the memory of taking her there, and her fear..... and there I am giving them all the tips about how to coax her into bathing, how she liked her food arranged, the music she liked while my DP sobbed and chainsmoked in the car park, where I shortly joined him.

She's been there two years now. We hardly visit because she doesn't recognise us and it's almost impossible to have any sort of rapport because we are "strangers". DP rings regularly - they are doing routine medical tests at the moment for her physical health. She is only 74. When i met her she was a vibrant gardening WI attending lady who lunched with a 'boyfriend" and a wicked sense of humour. She is now unrecognisable. As DP says, she has now "left the building".

DP and I are now borderline alcoholics with a whole bunch of unhealthy coping mechanisms for guilt and fear as we wait to play "geriatric roulette" - which one will need us first - what if more than one has a crisis at the same time?

My mother has said she'd rather die than move in with me - looks likely anyway and this is said with all the love - we are extremely close and she wouldn't want to see me go through everything again as I did with MIL.

I will always, always have the love in my heart to do whatever I can to help and comfort all of them but I am now 50 and I can't, without losing my DP completely, and any hope of financial independence for our own retirement. I would also rather die than have my lovely son, who really would if he had to, care for me and see me vanish in front of his eyes.

The idea of not "wanting" to care for elderly relatives is meaningless really - caring is driven often by necessity - no-one who claims they WANT to nurse someone in rapid decline is being 100% honest unless they have some sort of complex by which they are emotionally validated by doing so - in which case it is about their own needs not those of the person they are caring for to a degree (am prepared to be flamed for this but posts about the privilege of being able to return the caring favour make me see red.)

Yes, my humour is probably too black, too gallows, but you know what, my "caring" privilege has left me with a damaged relationship, high anxiety for the future and probably a good dose of reactive depression.

And the bottom line is that the recipient of my largesse is in a special hell for which there is no cure and that no-one can ease; i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

Sorry for the rant. (Not sorry).

@WhatNoNotYouAgain

I do, however, have a strong family ethic that I think is missing from a lot of British culture. Like, it would be completely weird to me to move to a country away from my parents and siblings.

However presumably your parents or grandparents did do that, or you wouldn't have been born here...

OP - where YABU is in saying that everyone ought to care for their parents... then later, that you are preparing to do it because you want to, not out of any sense of duty.

IOW, other people ought to want the same things as you want. Some do, some don't. Stop laying guilt trips on those who want something different.

It's very different when you are in your fifties yourself, battling with dealing with teenage children and your mother has become harder and harder to deal with as she ages and less and less considerate of other members of your family.

^^ This.

Low level care is daily visits, shopping for her, driving her to appointments, gardening, making food, responding to emergencies...?!

When the fuck does this basic low level carer .. you know.. work full-time with an average commute each way (say an hour), care for even school age children, attend all their own medical appointments, be a wife and do normal household running of their own on top of that "basic" care?
The week would have to be 20 days long to fit in life, that care on top!

Most people don't live near parents anyway, do how does that work? Or for us, with parents literally about 5hrs apart in various directions?

Who on earth can and should be expected to do, daily, what you are describing as the bare basics op?

You have no clue, no clue at all, the strain this puts on people, over years, and the impact on family members (i.e. children) when someone slips into a carer role.

Stepping away from this thread as I'm so angry

So just to clarify OP, children should look after their parents but not if they've been abusive, or they have dementia or any other medical problems that might make it hard, or if it's not practical for some other reason (distance, other caring commitments)?

"Children should want to pop to the shop for their parents if they can" then?

OP please just stop. Your ignorance gets worse with every post.

My dcs will not be looking after me. I don't want that at all.

No way in hell am I looking after my mother. Watching a lovely friend being destroyed as looks after her horribly abusive mother I vowed that I wouldn't do it to myself.

Not everyone has kind loving parents. I pay £40 a week for the joy of unpacking the damage mine have done.

The bit you are missing OP - is that the reason many people don't want to do the care, is that they can't mentally. It might look like from the outside that they could, but emotionally they can't, for a wide range of reasons, including not being in the best mental health themselves.