To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

What parent doesn’t want their children to have friends?

How would all feel knowing your children were going to school every day and not one other child included them, interacted with them but just acknowledged they were there, smiled and walked on?

How would you honestly feel about them going through school without a single friend?

I can’t imagine anyone would answer honestly saying that it was fine that if other children didn’t want to form a friendship with their child it would be absolutely their right. I just don’t think that would happen.

I can’t imagine anyone would answer honestly saying that it was fine that if other children didn’t want to form a friendship with their child it would be absolutely their right. I just don’t think that would happen.

It’s not fine. It would be devastating. But it is their right.

What a sad thread, i feel for you op.
I am so glad my dd went to a sn school. Inclusion seems to equal exclusion

OP what type of therapy does your DC currently have?

Are they in Occupational Therapy, Speech therapy etc.?

You might ask about help to learn social skills. Perhaps they can practice some role playing or other techniques.

If they haven't been taught these things, it is going to be more difficult as they're not just going to be able to figure it out on their own.
It may take longer, but with the help of a therapist they can learn behaviours and social skills to make some friends.

from a mum whose DS had a brain injury and had to relearn everything.

I totally understand what you mean OP. As a teacher what I often notice, and am amazed by, is that very often young children (up to, say the age of 5 or even 6) don't notice, or care about differences.

I have taught many children with SEN, and, on the whole the majority of the NT children have treated them as equals in the sense that they engage with them, play with them, and sometimes even understand how to help them when they are having problems. It is one the things I love about teaching young children.

I do agree that children learn from example though, and really it is the parents, and school staff, who should be showing the children how to manage and get beyond feeing uncomfortable.

I used to help out at a club for people with disabilities (pre kids) and they had a great social life with various activities each day. I mean this in the kindest way OP but do you have any adult friends with disabilities because people usually find their tribe, they are not being unkind but you need to have something in common with your friends and if you can't talk about the latest things etc because there won't be a real connection otherwise. I think it is great that the kids are being kind.

I wonder if she really was fine not being included, cherry pavlova, or if it was just easier to give up. Sadly, that’s what many people end up doing.
I know a lot of people here struggle with this, but people with SN are really not that different. It’s very very rare to find someone who genuinely has no need for relationships or interaction. I’m not sure such a person exists, outside the realms of psychopathy.

Just answering a previous posters question about who as adults has actual friends with disabilities. What an unpleasant person you are

Haha what? Because I said physical & mental disabilities shouldn’t be compared? (They shouldn’t) 😂 get off the internet

& I’m sure your disabled friend wouldn’t be happy about you using her as an example of what an “inclusive” person you are.

It depends on the age. An older child, csay 8+ can be actively encouraged to go out of their way to include others. With much younger kids would not be fair to expect parents to force their kids to do this. They too are trying to understand the world around them and make sense of things.

I know it hurts OP but surely the solution is not about strong arming young kids into actively make friends with those they do not feel comfortable with. They need to be taught to be polite and to not bully but beyond that, forcing them is not fair. As they grow older with more awareness parents can help them be more inclusive of those who engage in a different way socially.

This might be a controversial statement, but the place I have seen people genuinely included, apart from specific disability clubs which are brilliant, is in church. I attended a church for a couple of years a while back as I went with a family member and it was full of people who were a bit different in some way, mentally, physically and people engaged with them in a much fuller way, made sure they attended events by giving lifts, chatted about people's lives with them and so on. Being disabled was simply not an impairment to attending and being part of that group.

I think our society is very individualistic, and the belief that you can choose every aspect of your existence, from the news you see, the FB posts you like and to only interact with friends who are exactly like you is very ingrained now. This is not deliberately exclusionary, but it ends up being so- the popular friendly people get the invites, the parties, the FB holiday pics with friends and it can be hard for everyone else to fit in.

I am not even religious but I went to that church as I found it very serene and inclusive in a way I hadn't experienced before- from a time where everyone had to go to church (and probably hated it!) but where absolutely everyone could join in.

It’s not fine. It would be devastating. But it is their right

That’s something I would teach my dc. Always put yourself in the other persons shoes for a second and wonder how it feels to be them, is something I’ve always tried to get across to them. It’s something we should all be doing anyway.

I did wonder how long it would be for people with your attitude to post on the thread. You didn’t disappoint.

I think importing the notion of rights into the social realm is not completely healthy.
Imagine for a moment that everyone you encountered only did, vis a vis you, that which they were obligated to do.
Your life would be pretty horrible, I think.
Same applies to people with SN.

My child has dyspraxia and I totally get what you have written. Teaching kindness, including people and understanding the world is full of individuals not cookie cutter people would be a good start. It has literally broken my heart when I have seen some of the deliberate (and non-deliberate) excluding of my child

I did wonder how long it would be for people with your attitude to post on the thread. You didn’t disappoint.

What attitude? I am stating a fact. My child has a right to choose her friends. I have said with consistency that I would encourage kindness and tolerance. I have no negativity towards people with SN and I fail to see what I have said that suggests otherwise.

I think importing the notion of rights into the social realm is not completely healthy.

Importing? Rights exist and have always existed in the social realm.

“I have no negativity towards people with SN.”
Ahem. I think a little honest self examination may be overdue here.

OP I’m sorry it’s so hard. My dc has 3 children with additional needs in their class. One is a very good friend and they love playing together. The other two are physically challenging and are often excluded from the class as a whole because it’s necessary to keep them and the others physically safe. But my dc is pretty understanding if he is hurt by one of them and is definitely kind.

It is something we need to remind our children about when they start school. It IS important.

I have friends with children who have a physical difference and they face such cruelty from members of the public so often. It’s not ok. But we need to remind our children to see past differences where possible and to be kind.

As a child, because of my parents profession I spent the odd day in special schools. I vividly remember enjoying playing with some children but absolutely hating anyone hugging me or dribbling near me. That’s going to sound mean, but I just hated it. I was polite, I tried hard but the more children invaded my personal space the more I avoided them. As an adult I feel similarly when people hug me or sit too close. I get incredibly claustrophobic.

My point is that I remember being small and trying so hard to be kind and play with everyone but it required some effort sometimes. Not all of the time though! I did make some good friends who had very obvious differences. But I just didn’t gel with everyone, is the same way that i didn’t gel with all the NT children at my school.

Just wanted to give both perspectives.

I really do feel for you. My 5yr old and I walk to and from school with a nice boy but who shouts in ds face all the time. He scares ds with his yelling in his personal space. I make ds be polite and interact in the walk but I’ve no doubt he runs off to other easier friends once the adults are gone. I’m sorry. I hope when he’s slightly older he will be less fearful of these social differences and more understanding. I am working on it.

It’s really hard. My son is autistic so I understand.

A lot (not all) of the parents are intolerant arseholes sadly who should bloody count themselves lucky that their child doesn’t have to deal with such difficulties and that feeds down to the kids.

Ahem. I think a little honest self examination may be overdue here.

You’ll have to explain what you think a bit more than that. I haven’t said and nor would I ever say anything negative about people with SN because I don’t hold any negative attitudes towards them. But that doesn’t mean my child has no rights.

I have no negativity towards people with SN and I fail to see what I have said that suggests otherwise

Maybe read the your posts again then.

I agree but to my shame I have found this hard. We invited a lovely little girl with sen to tea a few times but the girls struggled to play as they had literally nothing in common. It felt condescending somehow. Am friends with the girls mum the girls now older and at secondary and her dd goes to a non mainstream school where she is thriving and now has more equal friendships. My dd now is a grown up 13 this child is more like an 8 year old - they just can’t relate peer to peer when we get them together.

I found my dc played with kids they had an infinity with, whether they had disabilities or not. Two of mine, older now have aspergers.
We taught them as best we could that some people have boundaries and it's not ok to get in their faces or too close.
You don't always get through straight away, but both are doing fine in the world now.
Just because your kids have disabilities doesn't mean you shouldn't teach them how to be accepted by society.
I'm proud of what they are achieving and they have good friendship groups, one dc with friends from school, as a grown up now.

keep teaching them OP they will be fine.

The point us though that you and others have chosen to frame this debate in terms of rights - a choice which is itself quite telling - when that’s quite clearly not what it’s about. No one, including NT people, have enforceable rights to human relationships. That doesn’t mean the OP should just shut up and go home though.

Anne was answering my question about adults having friends with disabilities Hit.

And while there are different issues with physical and mental disabilities, they do both lead to social exclusion.

You sound like a nice person Anne. One of the positives of having a disability is that it acts as an automatic filter to keep the nasty people out of your life.