To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

And my children will choose theirs.

Unless of course your child chooses a drinking, swearing, shop lifting ne’er do well. I’m pretty sure you’ll be less supportive of your child choosing her friends then, and all of a sudden will have less issue with influencing who she spontaneously likes.

Maybe read the your posts again then.

If you believe there is something in my posts that highlights a negativity, it is up to you to point it out. I know there isn’t, so won’t be re-reading.

Go back and read your posts hercule. They drip with hostility. I grant you it may be unconscious. But it’s there alright.

@NoSauce I would avoid being around anyone who is loud, invades my personal space, or tries to talk to me when I'm not comfortable. Due to my own issues, not theirs. For example i generally steer clear of loud extroverts or people who I don't know that tries to touch me. It makes me very anxious.

@NameChange84 Yes, I would walk the long way rather than be in a situation that required me to talk or interact in a way that I'm not comfortable with. It would be nothing to do with them having disabilities.

The above 2 responses are about my own sensory processing issues, nothing to do with the person who is trying to interact with me, neurotypical or otherwise. So I'd be the little girl walking the long way who you think is avoiding your child because of their disabilities, whereas I'd be walking the long way because of my own issues. Would that still not be acceptable?

Unless of course your child chooses a drinking, swearing, shop lifting ne’er do well. I’m pretty sure you’ll be less supportive of your child choosing her friends then, and all of a sudden will have less issue with influencing who she spontaneously likes.

Get a grip. Safeguarding my child is my responsibility as a parent. Stepping in to remove her from a negative influence is something I will do without apology, because she is my child. Forcing her to be friends with someone else’s child when she doesn’t want to be isn’t something I will do. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Hercule why would your dd feel uncomfortable? You keep stating that she has the right to stay away from kids that make her feel uncomfortable but you don't say why she would feel like this.

Surely if a child gets close to her for example she can just say move back a bit please and invite them to play?

That’s something I would teach my dc. Always put yourself in the other persons shoes for a second and wonder how it feels to be them, is something I’ve always tried to get across to them. It’s something we should all be doing anyway.

So if your DC comes home and says "Max follows me around everywhere and is always trying to pull me away when I'm playing with my friends. I try and play with him but he keeps hugging and touching me all the time and I hate it. I've asked him not to, but he does it anyway."

You would tell them to suck it up and put themselves in Max's shoes? I don't think you would.

Sorry that sounds a bit garbled.

So you’ll step into remove her from negative influences, but not to influence her positively.
Well, you’re doing half the job. Better than nowt, eh?

Go back and read your posts hercule. They drip with hostility. I grant you it may be unconscious. But it’s there alright.

If it was there, you would go back and find it.

I think this is hard on your children but you can’t expect a genuine friendship from other children if the connection isn’t there. It’s a two way thing and if your child can’t provide a friendship to compliment another child then all the interaction will be is politeness. I teach my children to not exclude and to be polite. They invite children to birthday parties where all boys/girls have been invited or while class parties. I’ve met with parents in the park etc but haven’t forced friendship on them or for them to spend the amount of time you would with a true friend.

We don’t do this as adults - if a woman with learning disabilities was over familiar in a supermarket you would be friendly and make polite conversation. If she asked to come over to your house and maybe imbedded your personal space, my bet would be you’d be polite and make your excuses. You wouldn’t start a friendship where she came over and had tea every week. And even if you did, you would be humouring her, not having a meaningful relationship.

I get where you're coming from OP and it must be hard.
The reality is, regardless of mental capacity/race/religion/disability sometimes a child will still be excluded some way for whatever reason. It's a part of life unfortunately, you can only teach your kids to be resilient and comfortable with who they are. The more you project your own fears of them not being included, will in turn, create the insecurity within them and keep it burning.
Children, NT or otherwise, are still learning about social skills and unless they're being outright rude or offensive then you cannot fault them, or their parents for how they behave when around your DC.

I think children should be allowed to choose their own friends, and not be forced (or guilt-tripped) by their parents into playdates with children they don't want to play with, regardless of SEN/LD.

When I was about 10 my mum was very keen on me having play dates with her friend's daughter, who was in my class and very sweet and friendly. She had a mild LD and acted more like a 7-8 year old. I tried to be friends with her but I hated those play dates, we weren't on the same wavelength and had no shared interests or things to talk about. After 6 months I refused to go as I felt like I was looking after somebody's younger sister, I was bored and resentful. The friendship needs to be beneficial for both children, not fun for one and draining for the other.

I agree children should be taught to be kind, polite and as inclusive as they feel able to be. But not sacrificing their other friendships or breaktimes to entertain a child they don't enjoy the company of.

Do your children have friends outside of school, children with similar interests?

Many children get upset if another invades their space/hugs them/follows them around. I thinking teaching social manners is just as important as being inclusive.

So you’ll step into remove her from negative influences, but not to influence her positively.
Well, you’re doing half the job. Better than nowt, eh?

I am not going to engage with you further because I am finding it too difficult not to be very, very offensive towards you. Have a good evening.

I agree however I think this comes from every day interaction with our kids. And modeling this ourselves.

I have a severe special needs child, however I don’t think I’d want children to be told to be inclusive of him. We all need to be inclusive of each other snd almost all of is have stuff.

I think those generalized, but very very important life skills such as kindness, sharing, not lying, rewarding good behaviour, no bullying need to be set in stone and reinforced in imaginative and solid ways both at school and at home. Then when a conversation comes up about difference, that understanding can come too.

@NoSauce I would avoid being around anyone who is loud, invades my personal space, or tries to talk to me when I'm not comfortable

What’s that got to do with anything? We’re talking about children here and the OP doesn’t say that hers are loud or whatever, they sound like they’re just trying to join in.

I think it would be quite hard for anyone to tasks the line you’re taking if they felt people with disabilities were fully human like the rest of us, hercule. The bit about your dd having the right to reject someone in a wheelchair if that made her uncomfortable was especially choice.

Such a heartbreaking post. My two are not yet at school but dd will be starting preschool soon (Scotland too) and I worry about her as she is not the type to just go up to other kids and play.

I hope to teach her to engage with others herself and help other kids feel included too. X

This is sad to read. Some schools get it right though. I was so proud when my 7 year old son came home from camp. He loves to play cricket but instead of playing cricket with the rest of his friends he chose to do another activity with a boy with dyspraxia who was previously in his class but now attends a different school . He said I can play cricket another day but I didn’t want X to be sad and lonely. I liked the game he was playing too. I told his I was proud at his empathy and kindness.
We can encourage behaviour like this and support schools to be inclusive.

Having been that autistic kid who expected nothing from anyone and yet was consistently left out of everything and bullied out of schools, I don’t see how to expect any more than polite pleasantness from people in general (even a small amount of that would have been nice, ha). I think people, including children, have the right to be protective of their personal space. A big difference in interests and abilities can also be a hindrance to forming friendships.
I really feel for you and your DC though, OP people have the right to choose their own friends but fuck knows I’ve known a lot of selfish social climbers.

Rest assured hercule, on any normal measure, you’ve been thoroughly offensive already.

I do agree with some posters that I really don’t like kids being told who to befriend, or to give special kindness too.

Understanding, that say, a child is deaf and you need to face them and speak slowly etc - that is fine.

Understanding of difference is good.

Pushing friendship is not.

And I’m speaking of someone who has been there! I do sometimes challenge other parents non inclusion of my child, in a polite way. For example he was excluded from a birthday party as the parents said ‘he wouldn’t like it’ - they’d assumed that his disability was something it is not. However they were also I think a little nervous of being responsible for him, so I assured him I would be there the whole time etc.

I think it can be quite difficult.

The child I mentioned preciously had an obsession with a certain subject. She would ask children to play and always demand they play her games. DD used to end up playing with her a couple of times a week, but then they would want to play other things and the child would refuse to play.

I imagine she felt excluded at the times when they didn’t play “her” games but you can’t expect a group of kids never to play what they want.

It isn’t an easy situation for anyone.

Nosauce, there are two sides. A child with SEN should be included and everyone shoukd their utmost to make this happen. On the other side of the coin is a child being asked to shoulder the responsibility for engaging a child with SEN when doing so can be enormously difficult and draining for them. They are both children. As I said before, it depends on the age. Even parents of children with additional needs find or difficult at times.

Can people stop comparing the way ND kids are treated to you not being friends with some people because of different interests? It’s not the same!

Imagine that everywhere you go, people avert their eyes and hurry away from you. No one wants to talk to you, be friends with you. And you know they probably never will.

I get it, not your problem. Again, thankfully not everyone feels this way.