To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

When does the unwillingness to include or form a friendship with a person with a disability become something abhorrent as an adult? When do you think the magical switch is, what age?

NT adults rarely put themselves out and befriend people with disabilities. They are polite and live in the safe bubble of their family and friends. Kids copy what they see adults do- not make eye contact at the homeless person sleeping outside the shop or the adult that could be drunk, high or mentally ill etc I rarely see people doing the pickup involve and invite the clearly lonely adult in the corner of the playground.

Specialist schools seem to become rather taboo even though lots and lots of children benefit from them and even more could if they where allowed to attend.

A few parents at my child’s school have decided once secondary they will no longer be in mainstream but are happily letting them plod along for the next 2 years first even though the child is falling further and further behind educational and friend wise.

Please do not use my dd to back up why exclusion is good.
This thread proves why inclusion doesn't work.
I said i was glad she went to a sn school
Because
Of the attitudes shown on this thread

@madfrogs they may do better in a good ms Primary than in a SS.

Disabled people ARE part of “mainstream” without them you no longer have mainstream schools or mainstream education, you have selective schools and all the limits that entails.

You probably do have more experience than I. I just often see parents on here in despair of mainstream schooling but they have no other option. It depends on the child and the school but some kids would benefit from being with similar children to find their tribe.

Kids copy what they see adults do- not make eye contact at the homeless person sleeping outside the shop or the adult that could be drunk, high or mentally ill etc

Call me selfish but you're quite right I wouldn't teach a child to approach a drunk, high or mentally ill person!!!!! They're just kids you know not baby Jesus healing the afflicted masses. Are you high right now?

Segregation is definitely not the answer, though many on this thread (and elsewhere) would probably be in favour of it.

Yes and some don’t @whateverhappenstheremore but you are unlikely to hear that much about those that don’t thrive at special school for a myriad of reasons.

What I mean is that person who is drunk, high or mentally ill could do with a friend. How many adults include them?

NT adults rarely put themselves out and befriend people with disabilities. They are polite and live in the safe bubble of their family and friends. Kids copy what they see adults do- not make eye contact at the homeless person sleeping outside the shop or the adult that could be drunk, high or mentally ill etc I rarely see people doing the pickup involve and invite the clearly lonely adult in the corner of the playground

I actually said upthread that I did similar.

But addressing your first part of that comment, it’s not ok that people ignore to a large degree an adult with disabilities. We have to change our mindset and understand that’s it wrong.

Then teach our children that everyone is equal and we all count and should be treated the same.

Children shouldn't approach adults but adults can approach other adults.

I rarely see people doing the pickup involve and invite the clearly lonely adult in the corner of the playground

I think that "clearly lonely adult" doesnt need fake gossipy school gate parents seeing them.as a charity case.

School gates are very clique. You cant trust half the parents there they only want to know who's kid hit who, which kids are on a higher reading level and bitch and moan about teachers who punish their little darlings cos it's always someone elses fault that they hit someone , swore at someone etc

Keeping to yourself is often a far better way to navigate the primary years.

:-(

I despair.

@5Zeds the parent openly admit the child is failing at the school and that the school isn’t the right one for them but they are not going to attempt to move till secondary school age.

This particular primary is classed as being very good and inclusive but it’s not the right fit for the particular child who Ian falling further and further behind but the parent doesn’t want their child in a primary specialist school. Completely baffles me all I can assume is their own stigma is what’s affecting their plans.

Yes I get that 5 - and that's true for most- as a society we need to learn to get on with different types of people and this should start from an early age. But for some children who are really struggling maybe it's better? I don't know!

I think it would massively benefit everyone to have disabled people enmeshed in all areas of life.

I agree completely, 5zeds.

all I can assume is their own stigma is what’s affecting their plans.
Or they know something about the primary SS you don’t?

I think context is important pika

As an adult I wouldn't approach a complete stranger that was high for example. I'd deal with (and have done!) drunk friends. Mental illness depends on what's happening. I've dealt with someone having a crisis turning up paranoid and barefoot at my doorstep on a rainy night having ditched their car, shoes, money, ID etc god knows where.

I put rarely because it's unusual. There are lots of lonely and marginalised adults out there. If adults don't go further than politely tolerating, how would kids know how to go further?

There are frequent posts on Relationships where a woman has a partner with ASD and has tried to overlook certain behaviours because of the diagnosis. Is she unreasonable to divorce because she's at the end of her tether?

Sarah- but the playground might be the only place that someone could hope to get adult conversation that day?

It might just be me but I don't see much adult inclusion in my day to day life. Kids are more likely to go the extra mile if they see adults do that.

I think you're conflating issues. In dealing with drunks, someone high or someone having a mental health crisis it wouldn't necessarily be appropriate for a child to witness it so wouldn't present as a learning opportunity. In fact I wouldn't have wanted my young children exposed to that at all. Different issues though to what we've been talking about so far.

It may well be the only place . I'm.just saying it might not be the best place.

There is thread after thread of these cliquey school gate dilemmas.

Everything from affairs, full on shouting matches, cat park.wars, cfs after free childcare and those who just use you for info on things.

I of course would hope that anyone would find genuine people and form.some kind.of meaningful friendship. I just dont fancy the chances that's all. Its worse than when we were actually at school.

The only thing worse than not having friends is having " friends" who are only your friend because it makes them feel good about themselves. Or who are just sussing you out to see if your "worthy" and probably talking behind your back in a closed whatsapp group.