To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

It’s really hard from both sides. I have dc, one on autistic spectrum, one ultra emotionally and socially aware and tuned in. Child without autism is generally very good at genuinely including others, but it’s hard to explain ‘why can’t they get it?’ In an appropriate way. Child with autism is learning social skills but will never have that innate ability to understand body and facial language as well as my other dc.

With every respect, yes. I am not going to force my child to make friends with any other child. I accept that that is a hardship for you.

Either you’re being deliberately obtuse or you’re not understanding. Regardless, I’m glad I don’t think this way and that there are ofhers who don’t. Sadly few and far between

My DN’s best friend has Downs Syndrome. Nobody forced that friendship. It occured naturally through dance classes because both girls love playing sports. Similarly her cousin has Aspergers and severe dyspraxia - he has a girlfriend now met at a camp aimed at teens who like music. None of these friendships are forced and I would never force them on my kids, not for anyone.

My children have learning disabilities, their understanding of their own condition is limited.

This is obvious to other children / parents.

I hate this prevalent attitude. That being tolerant and polite is enough. My children would not be as disabled as they are if it wasn’t for this attitude. Society disables my children.

Either you’re being deliberately obtuse or you’re not understanding.

It must be that I am not understanding. What is it you think I am not getting?

I put a big emphasis on my daughter being kind not just ‘nice’.
The last paragraph of your last post really upset me. Could you speak to the head teacher about organising some time of inclusivity awareness morning?

Honestly op unless someone is in that position themselves it is a very lonely place to be. Your op was lovely, the world unfortunately goes on. I myself have been through something traumatic recently and realised that sometimes our hardships makes it a very lonely place to be.

My god, there's some cuntish parents around.

Society disables my children.

I see what you mean, because if people were more genuinely accepting of difference then the differences your children were born with would affect them less. I really do sympathise. But I can’t place responsibility for that on my children. If they are polite and kind then they have done what I ask of them.

But liking people and engaging in warm, spontaneous friendship isn’t a choice.

Of course choice is involved on some level, children chose who they spend time with, who they include in games etc. I certainly chose my friends.

I think it’s about helping people see past the “thing” and give the person a chance. So understanding there may be reasons for someone stumbling over their words and not bring out off by that, or not being afraid of the child that gets loud or over excited. Parents can help by encouraging their child to see that everyone has something to offer them, to look for the strengths and positives in children and not just the “weirdness”.

It’s not about forcing friendships but creating an environment where friendships can grow.

I hate this prevalent attitude. That being tolerant and polite is enough. My children would not be as disabled as they are if it wasn’t for this attitude. Society disables my children.

I'm sorry that your children are disabled, but this is a load of crap and as angry as you may be right now, you know it's not true.

Because it’s not about forcing your child to be friends. It’s about teaching children that not everyone is able to relate easily to them instantly, and vice versa, but that if you put in a little effort to engage with them they may still have a lot of value as a friend / person. I have a couple of lovely and loyal friends who are ND - sure, they’re hard to get a read on at first and at times we’ve butted heads, but my life is better for having them in it.

Of course choice is involved on some level, children chose who they spend time with, who they include in games etc. I certainly chose my friends.

And my children will choose theirs.

I would encourage my children to be genuinely inclusive and I try to do that myself.

But I’m worried about the personal space issue. I think all the other things you mention wouldn’t be a problem, but for my kids, the personal space thing would be.

As sympathetic as I am to your request and as much as I’m sure your lovely children have a lot to offer, this my be insurmountable for most.

Could you focus on this with them in some way. Could you get them involved in dance or gym? Is there anyway you could work on this one issue?

My daughter does this. She's 4, and will run up to all any any child, usually a girl, and almost always a girl in either a dress or anything sparkly, and hug them. The girl will hold still - after all, they know at this point it's not really usual for a stranger to grab them and hug them. I don;t blame them at all. They sort of look at me in a "help" sort of way whilst I try an extract my daughter whilst repeating the usual "you can;t just hug anyone, they might not like it" stuff. Personally - try not to be upset. The strange children are just that - children. I know this is hard to accept, but they don;t HAVE to play or talk to your children. But she politely said hello and then excused herself with a goodbye and went to walk to school the long way round. Instead of walking for 5 mins next to my son - There's nothing wrong with that. A child is allowed to do that, and should do - she was polite, but uncomfortable, but removed herself from a situation that to herself was uncomfortable.

I was the huggy chatty overly close child. No one ever bothered explaining social boundaries to me, and as such the school when I was 14 sent me to social awareness classes. I absolutely understand why my behaviour was uncomfortable back then to other kids - I meant well, but it's not fair to expact other children to walk with yours, talk with yours, indulge yours. It would be wonderful, of course - but unreasonable to expect it. They were polite - that's so great. But to expect more from them is not fair if you're expecting them to force themselves to feel uncomfortable.

Because it’s not about forcing your child to be friends. It’s about teaching children that not everyone is able to relate easily to them instantly, and vice versa, but that if you put in a little effort to engage with them they may still have a lot of value as a friend / person.

Of course. I will teach them this. I won’t force them to befriend specific people.

This is an awful no-win situation.
I'm really sorry that your children are put in this position. But you're expecting a level of maturity from other young children, that they simply don't have. And although it's an awful thing to say, if we teach young children that they're obliged to remain and engage with someone who makes them uncomfortable, that can have major repercussions when they find themselves in the company of an adult or peer who (unlike your lovely children) is dangerous.

I don't know what the answer is. Of course we should teach our children to be kind and to play with children with challenges alongside adults. But it really isn't possible (and I say this as someone who spent her entire career teaching children with severe learning difficulties) to say to children that they must remain in a situation where they're uncomfortable when they're alone.

Obviously when you know the child with additional needs well and they're a friend of the family, encouragement is a very good thing. But generalisations about children we don't know are more complex.

I'm sorry that your children are disabled, but this is a load of crap and as angry as you may be right now, you know it's not true

Yes, it is true. It’s absolutely true, it’s just an uncomfortable truth for those who don’t have to (or want to) deal with it.

I sometimes just want to scoop my two up and take them away somewhere remote and beautiful and surround them with nature and animals.

But I can’t. I want to be part of society. I want friends.

It’s so lonely.

Of course. I will teach them this. I won’t force them to befriend specific people.

Where did anyone suggest you should?

I wish you could speak to my son’s old primary school. One of the boys in his class was severely autistic. To a child they were very protective and defensive of him, and I saw him at every party that my son was at, right the way through pre-school and primary.

My dcs are now much older than your dcs but I have to say, I haven’t found it easy to eat here that sort of things to my Actually I have failed to teach them that.

Why? Dc2 had his own issues making friends and asking him to make an effort for others was
Dc1 coud probably have been taught. Except I had enough on my plate than trying to manage my dc’s friendship. I was just grateful he had friends and was sometimes invited to b’day parties or play dates.

I totally get where you are coming from. But I’m struggling to see how other parents could teach that sort of things to their dcs. ESP if said dcs do not have children with SN in the close family they have learnt to interact with.
Basically, unless as a parent, you are actually invited that child to a play date, regardless of whether your dc wants them to be there or not (which have means ignoring the wish of your child - not the best thing to teach), I’m struggling to see what a parent can say or do.

In that context, I would like to know what you expect parents to actually do? What should a parent do encourage their dc to ‘actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird.’

Most learning is not done in response to being told something, it's in response to seeing it in action.

Nobody needs to force a child to do anything but if they see their parents genuinely reaching out to a wide variety of people they will learn to do so themselves.

A little thought experiment for the Hercules of this world.
Imagine your child was in a class where there was one child who had come from a different country, religion, ethnicity. So visibly different, not yet fluent in English perhaps. Imagine too that the the culture isn’t very healthy, so this child’s being excluded, not invited to parties etc. And your kid feels the pressure from peers and is part of that.
Do you feel you need to encourage your child to behave differently and take steps to include the excluded one? Or does the “I won’t force my child” rule apply? If not, why not?

It’s not about forcing your child into a friendship. Making them see that some children have a disability and that they want to be included in everything just like your child does, that they want to join in the games and fun, that they want to be invited to play or for dinner and that they may not be because of their disability is a start.

If we just keep ignoring it the issue that the OP and her children are experiencing will never go away.