To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

Londonjax, your post made me cry. I wish my son had a friend like your son. I really reallly do x thank you x

TeenTimesTwo

That is a good point. I will explain to my child that feeling ‘uncomfortable’ because someone has one hand or stutters is just prejudice. And prejudice is wrong.

But I am not going to force them to be friends with anyone.

You chose befriending a racist person as a comparable situation to befriending a person with sn/disabilities.

If you didn't want to invite someone racist to a party then that's fine,. It's an unpleasant part of someone's character. If you don't want to invite someone to a party because they're disabled, that is quite vile and not comparable.

@Pardonwhat Of course, in the same way if you are inviting the class to your DCs birthday party you don't not invite one kid with SN. That is obviously wrong.

I’m so so confused. One minute it’s not about forcing friendships but then the next it’s about making a connection.

The connection is a friendship though. I raise my children to be polite and kind and not to leave anyone out but if they have nothing in common with say Sandy then their won’t be a connection above politeness.

Our school have buddy benches and all the such but that’s not a connection either. It’s a group of year sixes who want to play with the younger children basically who are then rotated weekly and they play what the buddy child wants to play but it still don’t foster anything more.

My oldest was the only friend one particular little boy had at nursery apparently he used to tickle this little lad because it would make him smile. He was non verbal and relied on equipment to get around due to his disability. My child became his friend because he wanted too not because of anything I could of told him at 3 years old.

My child’s right to walk away when she feels uncomfortable and to try to form friendships she enjoys is as important as your child’s rights

Maybe try working on the issues that makes her uncomfortable around children with disabilities instead of making excuses for her.

Maybe you need to look into schools with Sen units

Is this a serious comment? Fucking unbelievable.

Even if it were possible to just say “oh, I think I’ll send my child to a specialist school this year”, why should she?

I am reasonably certain my children will need to go to a specialist school and I’m just starting to fight for the funding required to do so (they’re 2, by the way). If they were able to cope academically in a mainstream school, and participate in the school day, you can bet your arse that I wouldn’t be sending them to a specialist school just to make other kids feel more comfortable.

Heaven forbid any non-disabled person has to move out of their comfort zone for a few minutes in a day.

OP clearly thinks we all need to make our kids be friends with any DC who has SN.

formerbabe

I never ever said that
Please point out to me at one single point in this thread where I have ever said I’d exclude anyone on the basis of SEN? I’ve said entirely the opposite.

OP clearly thinks we all need to make our kids be friends with any DC who has SN.

Do you hear yourself? Vile.

@teentimestwo

That is exactly how I anticipate any conversations about being "uncomfortable" would go regarding this subject, hence I would want to explore why they felt that way as if it were due to the first 2 reasons, I absolutely would try and work through with my DC why situations like that can make us feel uncomfortable and how that reaction can be overcome. If this is "forcing" friendship then maybe I would but to me teaching empathy and understanding in that situation should negate the need to force anything. In the 3rd situation I'd say that's perfectly justifiable in DC not wanting to be friends.
Interestingly, eldest has a couple of Neurodiverse friends from her class and the subject of being made to feel "uncomfortable" never came up while she was forming those friendships. More curiosity and questions about how/why their brain worked the way it did.

A few of the responses on this thread remind me of an awful thread on a different forum once questioning if a certain one armed kids TV presenter should be allowed to present because she made her DD "uncomfortable".

When I was reading about the little girl who went the longer way round, I identified with her. I get very panicked and distressed when someone invades my personal space

I agree with this. I do feel for you OP, you’ve probably had this already suggested but could they be enrolled into a school where children have similar learning difficulties?

Atleast they aren’t being bullied and don’t seem to notice people feeling uncomfortable with them.

And how is that vile? My kids choose their friendships. Of course if prejudice is a part of their thinking I would challenge that. But they get to be friends with people they like.

In answer to Tinkly, I have a disabled friend and I didn't know her before she was disabled. We met through our sons (they are best friends) and we have a friendship separate to them that includes days out, night out and holidays.

Not sure if it makes a difference that my friend has a physical disability, but it's a friendship the same as all my other female friends.

OP clearly thinks we all need to make our kids be friends with any DC who has SN

How fucking unkind. Ask yourself if you were in her shoes would you be happy that your dc were being excluded?

I have never been more proud of my son when aged 3 he went out of his way to play with an autistic friend despite it meaning he didn’t get to interact with other children at his induction day at primary school. He then spent lots of dinner times despite not being in the same class. His mum came up to tell me he’d been so kind. I hope it lasts as he grows up

Maybe try working on the issues that makes her uncomfortable around children with disabilities instead of making excuses for her.

She doesn’t need an excuse to walk away from another child. As long as she is polite, she can do as she wishes. At the moment she is only 3, so she has no ‘issues’, thank you very much. But when she comes to me at 7 and says, “X keeps touching me and I don’t like it,” my answer isn’t going to be, “You have to be friends with X.”

I don’t think the OP has framed her complaint in terms of rights or forcing anyone at all.
I think people jump to represent the issue in that way in part because they feel a twinge of conscience about issues like these - it’s easier to reject what she says if you make this about my right to take this, my right to deny it. Really it’s about whether we encourage kids to look beyond obligation to what it means to be a someone who tries to make positive change.

Oh OP I really do feel for you I work in a school with an attached SEN unit and regularly get upset at some of the exclusion I see, both within the school and the unit. Like many others though, I honestly don't know what the answer is. Yes, teach the kids about inclusion and its importance/benefits. It's sadly not massively successful at integrating children in my school, it's no less cliquey than any other school I've worked in imo. So what is the next step? I wish I had an answer.

For balance though, I will echo other posters in that some of the posts are expecting way too much from the kids in the class. They are only children themselves, understanding the ramifications of a very complex social issues, and acting appropriately/inclusively upon it, is an awful lot to expect and probably beyond the vast majority of children, especially at those ages. It's probably beyond most adults to be honest, and I will include myself in that. I will hold my hand up and say I don't have a single friend with SEN or serious disability. I don't consider myself a 'dick'.

we don't always know how to deal with some of the special needs e.g. a tendency to hit and kick other children, or to scream a lot and scratch.

I had this in pre-school when DD was 4. She loved playing with a boy who happened to have these tendencies, but he would kick her during circle times. I suggested she just sit a little further away. It worked, and he’s now one of the kids in the EP unit she’s still good friends with.

I would no more demand other children pretended to be her friend than I would force her to do the same for others.

Because she’d have to be pretending right? It can’t possibly be that kids with SN have anything to offer NT kids when it comes to friendships, right?

Yup. Hence why I would never encourage my DD to pursue friendships at her loss because you just get bitched about

Jacques

I don't know what happened in your situation but it sounds like a very strange and unusual reaction from what you've said.

I and the vast majority of parents with DC with sn would be absolutely delighted if another child befriended them.

Bit of a handy ‘catch all’ is this feeling uncomfortable. As the poster upthread said, we need, as parents, to look a bit deeper into why our child feels uncomfortable. If it’s to do with their own sensory needs being incompatible with loud noises or hugs etc then that’s understandable. If it’s just the ‘difference’ , or the fact your child may be taking the lead from bullies and not wanting to be their target too, then no, it’s not really acceptable. I wouldn’t accept it from my child. They need to look at the reason for their discomfort in exactly the way I might have to.

I think the issue with people feeling like space has been invaded comes back to this thing of people not telling 'John' to calm down a bit for want of hurting his feelings. Then hurting him because they don't want to be near him because he's loud.

I've always found it's perfectly fine to say to 'John' 'no hugs today John, thank you'. Children with SEN aren't stupid. They'll figure out the niceties. Sometimes it takes time, sometimes it means repeat, repeat, repeat. Talk to the parent(s), find out how you can tell a SN child to calm down, not hug or whatever. One of DS's friends shakes John's hands as they can't do hugs. Not a problem. Hugging is John's way of saying you're his friend. He's fine to shake hands as he understands that's the way this particular girl prefers to do things. He's happy to fist bump too. He's not daft - he just needed to be told what each child preferred.

@nosauce what makes you think my DC have not been excluded at times and struggled with friendships? One has a lot.
But kids get to choose who they are friends with. They should be polite and kind, but an actual connection is a friendship. And I am not going to force my kids to be friends with anyone.