To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

I’m struggling to see how other parents could teach that sort of things to their dcs. ESP if said dcs do not have children with SN in the close family they have learnt to interact with and it is not even easy when they have this! One of my 5yo twins has social difficulties, ASD suspected by school, his sister has instinctively learned to accept his differences, plays by his rules (not always of course), is not overly upset when he screams, hits her, or throws things around in anger.
But I genuinely doubt she would therfore be more inclinded to befriend a classmate with SN.
She is friend with her sibling because it is only the two of them at home so they naturally got to know eachother and as twins are best friends. I don’t believe she would want to play with a classmate who always wants to dictate the game or who hits her when he loses for ex.

Where is it written that we or our children have a "right not to feel uncomfortable"? Never heard such a stupid idea in my life.

My child doesn’t have a right not to feel uncomfortable. She has a right to walk away from situations where she feels uncomfortable.

You sound both angry and sad, totally understandably, however, you simply can't force friendships. You can bring up your child to be kind but that isn't all a friendship is. My child is very kind to a child with additional needs in her class, she asks him to play, invites to parties, talks to him, she is kind because she's been raised around me working in Sen schools and has no fear of the outbursts or the differences however when she's talking about friends she wouldn't mention him because he isn't her friend, he's a peer that she's kind to. She doesn't have the same interests, want to talk about the same things or play the same games. I have a neighbour with additional needs, she's lonely, I char every time I see her and engage about things she is clearly interested in and I like her as a person but she isn't my friend and I wouldn't want to spend large amounts of my time with her because we don't really have much in common and I don't think my child should have to play with someone just because they have additional needs. Sounds like the children at school are being kind, trying to talk and include but they have their own friends who they want to play with. At school we were made to play with the child with special needs, believe me that didn't make the situation any better. Maybe you need to look into schools with Sen units as friendships are often easier to create with children facing similar issues.

Hmmm. I don't think I have ever actively tried to not be inclusive, but I also have sensory issues and even now if anyone is loud, comes too close to me, or tries to touch me I automatically flinch and move away, and I've always kept myself apart I guess. I'm not an expansive person, I don't like people coming too close to me, and I tend to easily go into sensory overload.

So I wonder in some situations whether I'm seen as uncaring or unfriendly to people who might have no idea.

People react very differently to different types of people. As a child I would have been kind and polite but also very much distanced myself from your children. Not because of their special needs, but because of my own idiosyncrasies. I would have been panicked by anyone, neurotypical or otherwise.

Because the thing is, hercule, you weren’t talking about kindness, you were talking about tolerance. I’m sure you realise those aren’t the same thing.

I was talking about both.

We’re nit talking about seeking friendship at this point though are we? We’re talking about reaching out and creating connections, to help the excluded child feel better and see if friendship can grow.
You seem to be saying that you wouldn’t do that. Can that really be the case? You really wouldn’t encourage your kid to reach out to a kid in that position? Surely not.

My kids are 7 and 10 for those asking.

“I also don’t think it is necessary for my very young daughter to ‘challenge herself’ when she is meant to be playing and forming friendships she will enjoy.”

It is necessary! It is totally necessary for us to teach children from an early age that life is not just about being happy and comfortable, about your own comfort . We should all genuinely challenge ourselves to reach out and help others, and we should all realise that this actually helps us to grow into better more empathetic people and build a better society.

Why is it ok to teach that your own personal comfort and enjoyment is paramount?

“It’s not about telling your children who to be friends with, it’s about teaching them not to be dicks.”

“It’s got nothing to do with “forcing” your kids to be friends with anyone and everything to do with teaching them a bit of empathy”

Now I’m genuinely confused - I thought you were saying that isn’t enough?! You’re saying teaching them empathy and telling them to be kind and open themselves up to new friendships isn’t enough... if our children are kind and empathetic and open but ultimately decide that specific friendship isn’t for them because it makes them uncomfortable, we should force it anyway?! Or not?

It is necessary! It is totally necessary for us to teach children from an early age that life is not just about being happy and comfortable, about your own comfort .

No, it isn’t. I will always encourage my DD to be kind but she doesn’t have to engage in friendships she doesn’t enjoy. At all.

We’re nit talking about seeking friendship at this point though are we? We’re talking about reaching out and creating connections, to help the excluded child feel better and see if friendship can grow.
You seem to be saying that you wouldn’t do that. Can that really be the case? You really wouldn’t encourage your kid to reach out to a kid in that position? Surely not.

Not if it made my child feel uncomfortable to do so.

For what it’s worth hercule, I’ve direct experience of a parallel situation with my dd. Little girl in her class, undiagnosed AS at that point, very lonely. I encouraged DD to be reach out, set up some play dates, friendship developed and 6 years later DD still has a very loyal friend.
It can be done and it’s so worth it when you do. Your kid learns, everyone benefits. It’s really sad to close yourself and your kids off from this sort of experience.

TheBigBallOfOil

I am not closing her off from anything. I am treating her like a person whose feelings matter, rather than an extension of my own person.

@akerman

that is lovely. You must have been so happy for him. I was only asking because sometimes I wonder whether the parents would be reluctant to let their children spend time at another's home or without them being there, especially if the parent didn't have experience with a child with their disability.

Also, when children play together they ask a lot of questions. I wonder whether that would make the disabled child uncomfortable. I know my child would definitely ask if it was obvious, not out of spite, but out of curiosity and wanting to understand in her own way. It is tricky to know where the limits are.

@Clouddy sorry I don't understand the context of the way you've quoted my post there. I didn't say the first thing but said the second. I've not talked about my DC "feeling uncomfortable" with a friendship because I've not had to address it yet. But I think if they did I would try to explore with them what it was that made them feel uncomfortable and why.

I agree with the PP that it is about teaching children to see past the difficulty/disability. So not to just assume that if a child can't speak fluently or play football then there is nothing to see.

My youngest had few friends in primary and hardly any party invites once whole class ones had stopped. In secondary she has a lovely group of friends. They all have their 'quirks' but they accept each other, quirks and all.

This isn't about saying someone has to be friends with a bully. But that patience, open mindedness and acceptance should be encouraged.

So what I did with my dd was wrong then? I shouldn’t have done it?

I think being polite is fine.

Ah OP, I wonder if it becomes more of an issue when children get older and more aware of the differences. Don't want to be goady, but surely you realised it was going to be tough for your children to form relationships? On a more positive note does the school help with any of the interactions, or talk to the kids about differences - I would expect this tbh.

So what I did with my dd was wrong then? I shouldn’t have done it?

You do you. If it felt right to you at the time, great. It doesn’t mean I have to do it.

Sorry if I sounded like a dick in my previous posts. I meant that it would be my own sensory processing issues that would cause me to avoid being close to anyone that came to close to me, not that I would automatically shun anyone with disabilities that meant that they tried to come close to me.

@herculepoirot2

You know none of us know what the future holds.

Horrible to say it, but any of us could become disabled at any point. You, your children, me, my children, anyone could have an accident tomorrow and be left in a wheelchair, be left physically or cognitively impaired, all manner of things.

Your attitude would change then, trust me!

So do the adults agreeing with OP do this? Do you include people in your friendship groups that you find it hard to connect with?
Because my experience is that adults choose their friends based on who they connect with and get on with. I am surprised that anyone thinks children should behave differently.

I’m in two minds on this.

My daughter did just what you asked OP - to the extent of making sacrifices (totally chosen by her, not even suggested by me) and the parent of the child in question then bitched about her motives.

It unfortunately got back to me. I’m afraid very much it’s a case of once bitten, twice shy here.