To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

Lamb to the slaughter??? :-( :-( :-(

Jesus.

Every fucking day my children go to school they are like lambs to the slaughter . You completely disgust me.

@DotForShort

But you're talking about parents. Parents can do these things and should. What the OP is expecting is for little children to be able to make strategic judgements about children ("is child A standing too close to me and trying to kiss me when I've already told them not to several times because they are being rude, like mummy told me I was being when I did this to the next door neighbour, or because they have SN? Probably SN? Well I'd better not politely disengage myself and walk away just in case, he needs to connect. I'll try and overcome my discomfort and continue with his interaction in case it yields friendship,or at least let this poor child feel like they've made a connection even though I am actually incredibly uncomfortable with this level of contact".

Ginger you really need to consider other peoples opinions and experiences as valid too not just your own. You are obviously extremely angry and that comes across in your post. I was pretty disgusted when my child came home from his activity having been used as a punch bag in the name of trying to be inclusive. SN child or NT I will not stand for my child being hurt. For goodness sake surely even in your blind rage you can see that?

Parents and teachers set the tone. If you have ever been in a genuinely inclusive classroom (or home, for that matter), the difference to a non-inclusive one is obvious. Children tend to take their cues from adults. Which makes this thread doubly depressing. . .

after adults have done all they can to encourage a connection)

I think that is what is not happening people have repeatedly stated they would not encourage a connect if there child felt uncomfortable. So a child could feel uncomfortable at first instance and not be encouraged to connect because future interactions would make them uncomfortable.
I would expore with my child why they feel uncomfortable and see if its something that can be settled. Like i did myself personally with my friends who have made me feel uncomfortable unintentionally.

@gingerginger2

Your children are many things besides he impact hey may or may not have on my daughter. But my priority is her, just as yours is them. Surely as a mother you understand that?

I would never let her be rude or cruel to your child. Not would I insist she put up with behaviour from your child she shouldn't put up with from any other child. If she told me she didn't like how they looked, that they were in a wheelchair etc she'd get firmly told to see past these things as they didn't affect her; but if the child behaves in a way which causes her harm or discomfort, I will always support her decision to (politely) withdraw. Are you seriously suggesting I could do anything else and still be a good parent??

decides to start tooth and nail fight to get special school provision for DCs
remembers that Education board presume towards inclusion and cut funding to special schools, meaning there are not enough places for all children who need them

he’s not being bullied

Exclusion is bullying

Ginger everyone can not help but have empathy with your situation, ultimately you are focused on what’s right for your child and that’s exactly how it should be. In the same way others are focused on what’s right for their children. I want my children to be tolerant and kind but I won’t force them to be friends with any child they don’t want to because that is not to my child’s benefit. And to the earlier poster regarding children who are violent - I would absolutely draw the line at that. I would not expect my child to interact with any child that is physically abusive towards them SEN or no

Think those who have been an excluded child have been pretty ignored in this thread.,, but I wonder if provision for special schools is the way to go. I also think there should be gifted schools etc... being tolerated just isn’t enough but it is all you can ask.

Chicken - at primary school we are talking about years of interaction. Kids fall out with other kids all the time and then quickly make up. Infants don’t decide from one experience they don’t enjoy spending time with someone. However after years of being in the same class they know if they want to be good friends with them or just classmates

Exclusion is bullying

They are not being excluded. The OP is upset because the kindnesses and politenesses of the other children are not a true ‘connection’ leading to a chance of real friendship. And I understand why that upsets her. But the other children aren’t excluding her children, from what I understand from the OP.

You are assuming that my child would make mine uncomfortable.

You are assuming my child would have nothing to offer yours

That in encouraging your child to socially interact with my children you would be martyring your child.

My children are constantly made to feel uncomfortable, unhappy and un valued by children like yours feeling uncomfortable around them. On the advice of many in this thread, i just have to accept that that’s very sad, but just the way it is. Because it’s unreasonable to expect the majority to make a bit more of an effort. To go further than tolerance?

The girl who walked the other way has known my son for six years, she knows him. You all really think that she shouldn’t Be expected to spend 5 mins of her day talking to him? You really wouldn’t Spend 5 mins of your day talking to someone that in order to help them and not exclude them and perhaps get to know them a little more?

OP what I don't understand about your son's interaction with the polite girl is this. You say you could see his behaviour was making her uncomfortable. Why didn't you intervene,gently suggest he step away a little, engage her in a conversation he could join in with, try to support them BOTH to make a valid connection? Why did you put ALL the responsibility for making that interaction grow and develop onto a little girl? I'm not saying it's on your son - I daresay to the level he is able at present you have worked on his social skills. But he is where he is,you want him to be tested with something more than civility regardless, so why not try to facilitate that? Why is it his individual girl's job to be better than all these adults on here you revile in such stark terms?

They are being excluded !!!

You all really think that she shouldn’t Be expected to spend 5 mins of her day talking to him? You really wouldn’t Spend 5 mins of your day talking to someone that in order to help them and not exclude them and perhaps get to know them a little more?

I would. But whether or not my child would is going to be up to her. You are being unjust towards this little girl. I understand that it comes from anger about your children’s difficulties in society, but that is neither her fault nor her responsibility.

@gingerginger2

I think the situation you are describing with the girl who wouldn't walk the same way as your ds is disgraceful.

I don't buy into this nonsense about personal space and boundaries in the situation you described.

It's shitty, nasty exclusion.

Imagine as an adult if you were walking to work for example and a colleague did this to you. It would sting...don't deny it

ginger - we weren’t there and you are looking at this from your child’s perspective not hers. If that girl was my child and he was just trying to talk I wouldn’t be happy she’d walked the other way. If he was invading her personal space, shouting, touching etc I would completely understand it

They are being excluded !!!

The other children are exercising their right to move away when they feel uncomfortable one-to-one.

If there are other factors here, please share them. Is he excluded from games at break time? Are the other children unkind to him when he tries to speak? I would agree that they were in the wrong to do so. I can’t agree that they are in the wrong to politely and kindly move away if they feel uncomfortable, as you could see she did.

I'm assuming that based on your description of how he comported himself with the little girl. Those things would bother her, she is very reticent.

I think the issue you are having here is the target of your pressure. You want to protect your children; but you want to do that by imposing on other children. You see those children as powerful because they have power over your children (as you see it); I think you've stopped seeing them as they are - little children themselves who are inherently vulnerable and not capable of the kind of sophistication you are demanding of them.

The girl who walked the other way has known my son for six years, she knows him. You all really think that she shouldn’t Be expected to spend 5 mins of her day talking to him?

And you have no idea why she even went that way. Maybe she was avoiding your kid. Or maybe she was avoiding someone else. Or maybe she wanted to go stroke a cat she sees on the way sometimes.

Maybe theres a new girl or boy who's struggling to settle in that she promised to go "pick up" today.

You are expecting something that you aren't prepared to consider for her. That seems a little unfair too dont you think?

My dd sometimes just likes to walk on her own just with me for five mins before she hits the noisy classroom.

You can’t expect another child to want you child in her personal space making her uncomfortable to please your child no.

You saw this interaction and by your own words she was uncomfortable the only person failing here was you as a parent not stepping in and pointing out to your child what he was doing wrong to make her uncomfortable.

Stop projecting your adult feelings onto a little girl.

And yes I know, cry you a river, poor little NT children with all their privilege. I don't expect this to change how you feel. And to be fair you're entitled to your feelings if they give you any comfort. I suspect not. But I am sorry you and your children have it so hard.

excellent post OP, big hugs, I agree theres too many parents who simply dont care about their children being genuinely and not performatively inclusive, i think because they are the same themselves. theres one mum who i once spoke about my sons SEN at her DDs birthday, she was very polite and listened well and was sympathetic. FF nearly a year, She no longer even says hello to me walking past, .