To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

[WilsonandJackie]

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

The comments section indicates that the problems with feral children / drug dealing / drunk and stoned teens are occurring in urban/suburban areas.

...a lot of the kids were on medication for all sorts of things...

What sort of issues were medicated, MorganKitten?

Thank you @aintMissbehaving! DH is military, and I've been a citizen for a lot of years now. I wouldn't live anywhere else.
DH is hispanic (and our DC are mixed race) and I encounter racism from some of the other military wives, but never when we're outside the military bubble, iyswim.

Something else I would say, I grew up with with very wealthy parents, and in the UK, and to a degree Europe I was so aware of just how many advantages being in the right set of people gives you. Time and again I saw people who didn't have the right "background" have their opportunities limited. Not to mention it was disgusting the way my parents and their buddies would privately speak about those people.
Here in the US, obviously there is some of the same, but there are fewer barriers imho to going from rags to riches.

I also deeply love the American people and their mentality, and it gets tiresome hearing them (us) derided and mocked. I love the that folks here are genuinely pleased when someone does well, and are quick to celebrate with them.
Naturally not everyone in the US fits this, but there are bad eggs everywhere, doesn't mean the majority are bad eggs.

I don't live in Maine either, just so y'all know there are other nice states

We are in the US and I agree with you-kids seem more wholesome here for longer, sport is far more inclusive and you never see teens drinking in the park.
The truth is that if you live in a pleasant neighborhood, you feel very safe.
The guns situation is a negative but I think I would worry more about knife crime if we were in the UK. Even when I get a bout of home sickness, I see that my kids are having a better childhood here than they would have in the UK.

Here, you can all so easily end up in being abused just because you've gone shopping. When me and DH hired a car and went out exploring on holiday in Turkey recently, we found it so less threatening because we didn't have the usual abuse shouted at us or gestures from the car behind tailgating us, although everyone warned us it would be way more "dangerous" than driving here

I don't' know the US but I agree that street culture here can be quite loud and aggressive, young women get shouted at a lot, for example, My female teens have noticed that when they are in Eastern Europe (one particular country) , even though everyone is in bikinis and beach gear wandering around in the holiday resorts, there is less cat-calling, staring, stupid remarks which they have got here. Also in this particular EE country, teens and young adults are expected to be very polite, entertain younger children if some visit and generally are extremely well mannered, rolling eyes and disengaged behaviour on phones is not tolerated. Young men also interact with children which would be unheard of in the UK (e.g. would play/throw them up in the air and are not afraid to be around little children). I've been visiting for nearly two decades and have seen these nice teens in multiple families.

I do love the UK, but you can get shouted at by a group of youths for nothing, most people are lovely and kind here, but the street culture is really quite unpleasant especially if you are female.

We are just finishing up the summer in the US. The kids have loved the freedom and the running in and out of people's houses. They've loved how friendly everyone is and the genuine interest they take in the kids. They've loved the weather! I do think kids here have a much better childhood overall. I'd rather be a middle class American kid over a middle class British kid any day. If you work a professional job there's usually lots of flexibility and I know of no one who gets 2 weeks of holiday. Because that's the minimum doesn't make it even remotely common. In States with strict gun control mass shootings/school shootings aren't a problem. I'd like to move here before the kids hit secondary school. The idea of UK secondary school doesn't exactly appeal.

The only thing I’m really jealous of in the US is wages. My cousin for example is a teacher and so it her DH. They are always taking their boys to baseball games, concerts, multiple trips to Disneyland LA every year, what I would consider an expensive day out at least 2/3 times a month. They have a huge house. My friend by comparison as teacher here and her partner on a similar wage have to live very frugally.

@aintMissbehaving I was being kind. I'm an Emory alum too - did my MBA there while we lived there!

@transformandriseup tell me about it. It was a real reality check when we returned. However the cost of living in some parts of the USA isn't as cheap as some imagine. 18 years ago I was in retail heaven there and slowly it became more expensive to shop there than the UK. Taxes and homes aren't cheap in Atlanta either but I drove a nice car and gas was super cheap. We were putting $$$$s away each month too for our children's higher education.

I still cringe when I here 'middle class'. I would never ever refer to myself as middle class, and I am in that pay bracket. You know that they say that the only people who ever talk about class, are those that assume that they are middle class. In "class speak", which is ridiculos anyway, the "upper class" never refer to class, and the "working class " never refer to class. It is only the "middle class" people who talk about class. Why? Is it so important to you to not be seen as the lower rung of society?
If you break down 'middle class' what does it really mean? It means "I am better and earn more money than poorer people".

Again, if you venture outside of England "class" is very rarely talked about.

Another anecdote that I have, to show he absurdity of it. I am English myself , but I am incredibly humanitarian and I would never make anyone feel that they are worth less than me. I was teaching in an international school in another country in Europe. There was another male English teacher there. We all went out to lunch - a big group of teachers from different countries.
He said , " you know - one of the good thigs about teaching abroad, is that I get to mix with people of a different class to myself. ( He meant lower class ). Everyone looked at him with disbelief. People spoke about him and his snobbish ways for weeks.

This attitude is only used in England, and it is very disrespectful.
It feels good to YOU to say that you are middles class. It is offensive to people who have less than you.

This is a quote from an article online written by a Dutch man, who lived in England for a year.

"After the year I had become very much in favour of the UK leaving the EU. The worrying conditions that gave rise to the result—the class divide and the class fixation, as well as an unhinged press, combine to produce a national psychology that makes Britain a country you simply don’t want in your club."

Everyone thinks that our "class system" is ridiculous. I don't know how people don't see that it is stupid and wrong and it is not normal! It is like something from the dark ages.

@transformandriseup It's not just teachers. Nurses make about double the wage in the US than they do in the UK. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the NHS is essentially a monopoly employer and here hospitals and medical practices have to compete to hire them.

Per capita GDP is about 30% higher here, which also allows for higher wages>

www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/United-Kingdom/United-States/Economy

Angel, once again I can’t decide if you’re a windup or seriously can’t tell the difference between “classy” and class. I believe this has been explained to you before, but these terms are most often deployed to refer to an economic class. Not using terms like “working class” does not magically make us (working class people) disappear. I wish it was that easy to resolve the inbuilt inequities of capitalism.

Every country, even North Korea, has a class system. In some countries the extremes are more obvious, that’s all.

I live in Canada, we discuss the class system and our place in it plenty. I live in a middle class area, I sound middle class, my job and the other people that work to income make me working class.

I beg you to go away and read economic theory, particularly Marx.

How odd, autocorrect just inserted a bunch of text, near the end should have read simply “my job and income make me working class”.

I was referring to class in an economic sense because I think it's important factor to take into consideration when talking about the differences between the two countries.

If I was poor I think I'd prefer the UK with its council houses and far more comprehensive benefits system. I'd certainly want access to the NHS.

If middle class, meaning roughly a uni degree with a professional job, then I think the lifestyle in the US is far nicer especially for children. It's hard to talk about the US as a whole because it's so vast and the state education varies wildly. Massachusetts funds it's state primaries at 3x the rate of the UK and it has filed as its own country in the past in the PISA rankings. Someone with a well paid professional job that has health benefits through work isn't going to miss the NHS one bit. Their kids will have a paediatrician of their parents choosing oversee all their health needs including checking and charting development.

These two experiences would be wildly different depending on class so I don't see how you can have the conversation without reference to it.

Not the US, but I was on holiday a couple of years ago in a European resort popular with German and Scandinavian families. The children were all dressed like children, sensible shorts and T-shirts and the like, as opposed to the British children (girls in particular) who were dressed like mini adults. I know it’s only a tiny thing but it really made me stop and think.

One thing I don’t like is the tipping culture. Constantly remembering and budgeting for it is a bit of a pain.I’d rather everybody was paid a decent minimum wage. We were chatting to a taxi driver in NYC and he was saying that how the lowest are paid is akin to slave labour. I’m guessing the expectation to tip is to prop up crap wages employers are getting away with. He said there is a call for a new minimum wage, I forget the details.

Well my kids are having a perfectly happy British upbringing.

Guns, high crime rates, support for the death penalty, eradication of women's reproductive rights, the lack of a national health service, the still continuing racial divides, the in your face religion and Trump all put me off the US.

@reginafelangee you know that States is FOURTY TIMES bigger than the UK right?

We have some of that and more in the UK and much of what you mention isn’t everywhere.Not sure the dwindling NHS and Boris with his Tory Xenophobic Brexit shit show is anything to crow about.

It is not always like that in the US. America is huge. Where I grew up, it was boring, nothing to do after school. No kids in the neighbourhood, just adults and old people. I did grow up in a nice big house at least with lots of closets :) I think my dc have a far better childhood here in London. We live on the edge of nice enclosed park, huge green area, playground, tennis courts, sports area etc. My dc play outside loads, every day weather permitting. We walk everywhere and don't own a car. They have a lot of fun after school playing with friends. I do think kids grow up too fast here, but they do most places it seems.

@reginafelangee from where I'm sat (with no crime at all) the news from Britain seems pretty crime ridden right now.

The murder of that policeman (half of them were kids) is horrific. Britain is hardly a fucking utopia.

@Owlbabie5 how did you find Maine?

I come from what some call a classless country so it does stand out in the UK.

But the US has higher inequality than the UK anyway.

Absolutely loved it, it’s amazing. Driving to New Hampshire as I type and really sad to leave. Really liked Bar Harbour. We went sea kayaking on the other side and had seals bobbing up around us, saw eagles, porpoise too. The guide was fantastic. Kayaked 6 miles and there were pensioners in our group. Loved that coastal walk round the harbour, Acadia, Sebasco, eating lunch by the sea at the Two Lights Lobster place and Kennebunk. Dh is already missing his Coffee Hound coffee and Jordan’s Diner. I will be missing MDI ice cream and the beauty and kindness that is everywhere.We will be coming back for sure, have been plotting the days when the kids leave home( not long)and we could do it more. We stayed in Cromwell Harbour Motel which was superb but Dh has his eye on that hotel with a hot tub( for a night😂)over looking the harbour or a log cabin. Maine would be my idea of the perfect place to live, snow and all. I am the descendent of the only child out of 6 siblings who didn’t emigrate to the USA or Canada a couple of 100 years ago. You need to appreciate what you have but boy do I wish I’d descended from one of the other siblings.