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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

482 replies

WilsonandJackie · 16/08/2019 06:21

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

OP posts:
EggysMom · 18/08/2019 20:24

I'd choose the UK over the US any day. Quite simply, our son would not have lived to experience the stereotypically idyllic American childhood, because we would not have been in a position to fund his premature birth, 11-week stay on NICU, and all the medical interventions then and since. The NHS saved his life, the NHS continues to help him to thrive.

MarshaBradyo · 18/08/2019 20:25

I didn’t have one and have been to a few they seemed very low key

I can only comment from the people I know though so maybe in different regions it is as you say

MarshaBradyo · 18/08/2019 20:25

That was to Math

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 20:26

I have never lived in the US although have spent much time visiting family

thus none of my posts referenced life in the US

MarshaBradyo · 18/08/2019 20:28

Mathanxiety - But out of interest how do you know the perceived grabbiness of the US ones is more or less real than the UK ones.

Sounds like both sides are saying the same thing - you’re so grabby we’re not - and no one can experience it all to know.

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 20:30

MadgeMidgerson Sun 18-Aug-19 19:38:06
Soz I thought I was clear - people’s holiday impressions are not an accurate basis for sweeping judgements about an entire country

This post of yours where you repeated a challenge to the OP's observations came hot on the heels of Owlbabies' description of hiking clothes, and unlocked doors on Cape Cod.

May I not comment on posts seeking to use the federal nature of the US and Canada to back up your opinion that Owlbabies and the OP must be wrong?

You keep on saying that holiday observations are not necessarily the full picture, but then ask if there is something wrong with me or if you have annoyed me when I point out that I live here and can corroborate their impressions. What gives?

Ritascornershop · 18/08/2019 20:35

Grin at Timmy’s reference. Personally I’m always a bit shocked when I see someone with a Timmy’s cup. I assume they are (lowers voice) not from the coast. In my experience Starbucks and independents are more popular here. The Starbucks-Tim Horton’s ratio is about 5>1 where I live.

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 20:46

Marsha, there are people who have seen both and are probably in a good position to compare and contrast.

The odd idea that Americans are grabby and their friendly, practical and enjoyable customs are grabby and evidence of 'attention seeking' exists in the UK, and it is baseless.

I am thinking of events like Hallowe'en - children going around their neighbourhood 'literally asking for candy' - what next! A party where guests are expected to bring a gift to set up a mother-to-be with a few essentials - the cheek of it! A wedding where guests are directed to a registry where they can buy a gift that fits their budget if they so wish, saving the couple the bother of returning countless duplicate or unwanted items to regional department stores all over the country, or dumping stuff at Goodwill - a monstrosity!

There seems to be no appreciation of the fun and the practicality, just a good deal of suspicion and snootiness about it all.

There are different values at play in the two countries, and when customs are imported with no appreciation of the cultural context the local culture gets superimposed, with results that are equally comical and tragic.

Same goes for American versions of tea in restaurants (though many restaurants now know that presenting a pot of lukewarm water and a tea bag, with a little jug of actual cream to put in your tea isn't going to cut it).

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 20:49

If I gave the impression by proximity that I in any way referred to owlbaby’s post, then I would like to clarify that I don’t know owlbaby, do not have any opinions about owlbaby, and none of my posts are regarding anything posted by owlbaby.
My post was solely in reference to SusanneLinder, who is not as far as I know owlbaby.

Everyone is free to draw conclusions and I now accept that 7 days (fewer, maybe) are more than enough to appreciate the nuances of living in a country.

I personally don’t think I know what it is like to live in the US but I grant that people who have visited for a few days certainly do, especially where their view is congruent with yours.

Ok?

MarshaBradyo · 18/08/2019 20:52

Math I can’t say based on one year in Boston so yes I can agree of you live there you have deeper knowledge. It seemed really similar in many ways with the bad Miller Lite on top.

But I don’t think the British are more grabby. You still get threads laughing at the stereotype of one mandarin and a paper bag for Christmas and clothes covered in dog hair. Sure just stereotypes but still spoken about.

Can I ask you British and did you emigrate? Your experience might be regional / social circle based here.

MarshaBradyo · 18/08/2019 20:54

Although agree US probably does Halloween better and imported can be tricky.

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 21:05

Speaking very generally, I think a discussion of where a best childhood is experienced is hard, because it can only be experienced once, in time as well as location.

The idyllic childhood I had was as much a product or its time as well as place.

Most people in western countries with a state-provided health care system are lucky in that they can give their children features of what I would consider a happy childhood: a feeling of safety and being valued, freedom to play, curiosity stimulated, learning valued and interests encouraged. This doesn’t have to cost a fortune or require access to state of the art whatever. Some children in these countries will not be able to access even these things, either because of their unique family situation or more systemic reasons.

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 21:07

I personally don’t think I know what it is like to live in the US but I grant that people who have visited for a few days certainly do, especially where their view is congruent with yours.

*Ok?^

There is no need to be so snippy. You freely acknowledge that you don't know what you are talking about, just trying to pick holes in people's posts on technical grounds.

Neither the OP nor Owlbabies are talking about healthcare or any of the other problems of the US (there are many), just commenting on openness, politeness, patience, friendliness, consideration for others, civic mindedness, lack of massive separation between generations/ mutual hostility between teens and adults, and the absence of the prickliness, tetchiness and defensiveness, that are features of life in the US. It is very striking.

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 21:22

@mathanxiety

None of my posts were in reference to the US!

At no point have I posted about what life is like in the US!

I have not taken issue with or picked apart anyone’s impressions of life in the US!

I expressed (mild!) chagrin that 7 days is sufficient to draw valid conclusions but I now accept is is ample time!

I am going to hold this: MY POSTS ABOUT HEALTHCARE IN CANADA WERE IN RESPONSE TO @SusanneLinder**

Key words: CANADA and @SusanneLinder

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 21:27

I expressed (mild!) chagrin that 7 days is sufficient to draw valid conclusions

Yes, as a means of picking apart the posts of people who have drawn pretty accurate first impressions of places you have never been to, despite having no way of knowing if their first impressions might have been accurate.

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 21:28

@mathanxiety you are replying to me on the basis of things I haven’t claimed, regarding countries I have not spoken about, in reply to posters who i did not reply to and in fact have now posted multiple times that none of my previous posts referred to

I am utterly bemused by your responses, and your tenacity in misinterpreting despite repeated clarification.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen the like.

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 21:29

7 days may or may not be enough to get the measure of a place but by gum lady, 7 posts and I reckon I’ve got you sussed

😂

EatenByDinosaurs · 18/08/2019 22:25

For us life is pretty idyllic, or close to it in the US.

Personally I'd never want to live in the UK again (left to come to uni here in the US), for one thing as I love the space here, I like being able to get in the car an drive for hours without seeing a single house. I also love our lifestyle here.
I did live in Canada for a year after finishing uni, prior to marrying DH, and I wouldn't go back there either.

The US suits me, and I feel I have grown strong roots here, it's home and there's no place like home Smile.

MissConductUS · 18/08/2019 22:28

@catofdoom Have you been posting nice things about the US again, continuing in your bonkers denial that the whole place is a dystopian hellhole? God's gonna strike you dead woman.

Just kidding. But your bravery does impress me. Grin

whotheeff · 18/08/2019 23:39

I will say that while I am critical of many things in the USA, thus making the heart wrenching decision to move back to the UK, after 18 years in Atlanta I have adopted American intonation and vocabulary (I'm still Mom here in Leeds), and many other American habits like

  • saying 'hi how are you doing?' to everyone working in a store when I walk in
  • saying thank you ma'am or sir
  • smiling a lot and saying 'have a good day'
  • shaking people's hands on meeting them
  • expecting high standard of service in restaurants and bars (still in shock at how bad it is here)

The English are pretty moody and miserable in comparison to my GA friends and I often get strange looks here in Leeds when I engage in eye contact and small talk. Americans have a stereotype of being loud and brash but I actually believe they're incredibly friendly and the customer service is beyond any I've experienced in Europe since returning.

mathanxiety · 19/08/2019 00:05

Meanwhile, back in Blighty:
www.problemneighbours.co.uk/how-tackle-youths-gathering-outside-your-house.html

I can't decide if this is a spoof site or deadly serious. It reads like a Monty Python voiceover.

Colourfulest · 19/08/2019 00:09

I lived in Canada for a good chunk of my childhold.. and they were the best childhood years I had! We lived in BC and just spend all our time going on bike rides and walks down the river or fishing. My mums asthma disappeared whilst we were there because the air was SO clean! I loved every second of my life there.

Yanbu

whotheeff · 19/08/2019 00:09

Geez that's depressing if real @mathanxiety - I've always lived in a city since moving back and never experienced this so wonder if it's bored kids in rural areas? My older child hangs out at the parks here rather than outside peoples homes!

aintMissbehaving · 19/08/2019 00:21

I'm from the United States and haven't RTFT but want to say "hello and welcome" to @EatenByDinosaurs. So glad you're here and enjoying your time in the states!
Also really appreciate @whotheeff's kind description of American habits... (at least I think they're kind)
Atlanta is a great place to live /visit. We're from the midwest but when my eldest son was in college, he lived at Emory University while working a summer internship with a financial institution and had a good experience. Also, you summed up some Americanisms really well!Grin

MorganKitten · 19/08/2019 00:30

I spent a lot of time working in the USA, a lot of the kids were on medication for all sorts of things, I’ve worked all over and it’s harder to be LGBTQ or a different race there. And now they have a Nazi in the White House it’s worse. My bosses adopted black kids were asked when they were going back to africa the day after trump got in, they’ve moved state after death threats.