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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think an American/Canadian childhood seems nicer than a British one?

482 replies

WilsonandJackie · 16/08/2019 06:21

I know I probably am BU as stuff like this will always be a "grass is greener" situation and I can't judge a place based on a holiday (have just returned from 10 days visiting a friend and her husband who moved to Pennsylvania 9 years ago) but I really did notice some things while I was there that have me wondering. I know America has it's issues like the UK with poverty etc and is in an absolutely dire state at the moment politically but I was amazed at how different the children and teenagers over there's lives seem to be.

My friend's live in a suburban neighbourhood outside a big city. The neighbourhood kids (know I shouldn't judge it it over one neighbourhood I spent 10 days in but I live in a neighbourhood of a similar socioeconomic class in the UK which is nothing like this) seemed to be living such an idyllic childhood. Kids out playing on bikes on the roads, climbing trees, building dens, in and out of each others houses. I didn't think kids that age did that anymore, it was like a flashback to the 80s and it felt quite lovely. We're talking kids who are 12-14 years old. They seem on a completely different planet to kids in the UK of the same age. I'd see them riding their bikes to school each morning and they looked genuinely happy, in their own clothes rather than a depressing formal uniform (I hate uniforms with a passion, much prefer the system of a dress code). There were some kids who were smoking weed I admit, but it just looked a different apmostphere. They weren't in tracksuits standing outside a corner shop and intimidating people (yes I see this every day in the UK in my "naice" area, didn't see it once in the US), they just seemed to be laughing with their friends in their gardens.

My friends have 2 kids (girl 16 boy 14), they are completely Americanized and you'd have no idea they were born in Yorkshire. The DD drives now and has a job in a diner, so she earns her own wage. Her school finished in June and isn't back until September, so gets 3 months to let her hair down. While we were visiting her and her friends ended up renting a minivan and all drove to a spot 2 hours away (it's meant to be a sort of mountain range with outstanding natural beauty) to camp. Yes there was probably booze and maybe bud, I'm not oblivious, but the pictures seemed lovely. Gorgeous scenery, campfire etc. They all returned next morning and her friend gave her a lift to work on her way to her own shift. Her brother is very sporty and his friends were round a lot practising basketball in the back yard and then they jumped on their bikes to go to another house. Both kids and their friends seem so carefree and happy. In a way they seemed more independent than teens I'm used to, but also seemed to have had more of a childhood. The schools looked nicer, I know there's still bullying and badly behaved kids etc but none of the schools we droved past looked like the ones I'm used to. I'm used to crumbling concrete blocks that haven't had any money spent on them since 1973 and kids in grim uniforms walking in looking like clones of each other. Whenever I see kids walking to school at home they always look so bloody depressed. I think the middle school system is fab. Why are we chucking kids who may have only just turned 11 into a huge building with kids who may be nearing 17 and expecting them to get on with it? They go from being the oldest, the "big kids" in primary to suddenly being chucked into secondary with no transistion. No wonder they feel under so much pressure to grow up quickly. I'd have paid for my kids to do a middle school system. My 2 boys high school experience along with my own were horrendous. They were both under so much pressure by Year 9 and had no energy to do anything. For 2 years every other bloody word was "GCSE". Even in the holiday's they just wanted to rest. Only went out with friends to KFC or to doss in someone's living room and have a takeaway. Meanwhile my friend's DS at 14 still plays out and lives and breathes his basketball. DS's both insist a kid who was always playing football would have got bullied and teased in their school.

The UK just seems depressing, and my friend's have said the same. My friend's own words were "You couldn't pay me to take my kids back to the UK now. There's so many more oppurtunities for them over here and they are both so much happier than I remember being at their age. We are never coming back." I still love the UK, and would never move to the US because of stuff like Trump and the godawful healthcare system etc. But forgetting stuff like that and just thinking about the kind of apmostphere I'd want to raise DC in, I'd choose the US any day of the week. I've heard of many people who have gone to the US and Canada with kids and have stated that their kids are doing amazing there. My friends knew another family who emigrated to Canada and eventually the parents came back but the DC (late teens who had been there 5 years) downright refused.

OP posts:
LatteLove · 18/08/2019 16:44

Other than perhaps your point about middle school which I’ve never really thought about before, I don’t think the UK is depressing or what you refer to happening there sounds that different to where I live. Personally I’d rather live here where I don’t have to worry they might be shot at school and don’t have to spunk fortunes on healthcare.

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 16:45

You cannot get a cab from main city to suburbs at night, because they won't take you as they can't get a fare back. Night buses, not a great idea.

Uber and Lyft have solved that problem.

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 17:44

Health care is free in Canada! Dental/optical/prescription aren’t (with some exemptions) but health care is free in my province. You just have to be a resident.

on the other hand when I lived in the Uk dental was ‘free’ but no nhs dentists were available in my area so everyone not already on their rolls had to go private

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 17:46

guys guys guys I was in Italy once for a couple of days and I can tell you everything about their culture and way of life AMA

sorry but if you visited a suburb of one city that one time and asked three people, you are not an expert, just a gasbag

Ritascornershop · 18/08/2019 18:18

In my province (Canada) dental and optical are free for low-income kids. Prescriptions are for the most part very cheap as the government allows the generics.

Ritascornershop · 18/08/2019 18:33

Susanne from the previous page: I’m curious what suburb in Canada you visited where kids aren’t playing outdoors because of shootings. How odd. I visited my sister a few years ago in an average Toronto suburb, kids galore in the parks. I live in a west coast city and loads of kids on bikes and in parks. When my kids were 8 & 12 they shared a little paper route in our neighbourhood - that’s normal and I had no concerns about their safety.

House prices are astronomical in Toronto, Vancouver, and Victoria. Totally fine in other cities. The Dr shortage is crap, but seeing a Dr (or going to hospital) is totally free, not sure why you think we pay!

In my province daycare is subsidized.

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 18:42

Nothing like coming on here and getting the lowdown in life in your country from some poster who visited ‘a suburb’ one time, eh

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 18/08/2019 18:50

I thought I recognised Maine instantly from the non-locked-doors situation. That would be exceptionally rare anywhere else; felt strange to find somewhere this is the norm.

I’ve lived briefly in both ME and FLA. ME is an idyll, albeit mostly an older person’s state. Employment isn’t great, ambitious or particularly high-powered processions, with the result that most young people end up leaving the state at an early age and living in areas of the country their parents probably lived in ME to avoid in the first place.

I loved the place - even the remoter interior.

FLA was a different experience of the US altogether. At first it was a dream, everyone with a pool and AC, wonderful sunsets, key limes in the garden. The honeymoon soon wore off with the first impressions. The humidity is relentless, it’s socially and economically impoverished, it’s an intimidatingly violent state, and attitudes - especially relating to racism - are backward to a degree that in Britain would shock polite company. A tip: if you get into a jam re immigration issues, hire a Hispanic lawyer at your peril.

The Keys - other than Largo - are beautiful. But on no pretext would I even want to visit that place again, let alone live there.

My experience of the states despite this was largely positive and there are many wonderful things about living there. For me the benefits won’t outweigh the costs, much as I love to visit and daydream about what might have been! There are many points made about the UK, particularly its unaccountable fixation with ‘class’ with which I agree.

AmateurSwami · 18/08/2019 18:58

I wouldn’t want to live in the states because I’m raising black sons.

AmateurSwami · 18/08/2019 19:01

The craze of the new toys going through schools in the UK is insane. That just doesn’t happen here. Birthday parties in the UK have gone mad, my reception age kids were going to all sorts of huge all-class parties practically every week. It’s way more low-key here, like a play date with several children and a simple home made cake, and a small bag of sweets at the end instead of elaborate party bags. Much less fanfare all round.

There’s no way this is unique to the UK and doesn’t happen in the US.

orangina01 · 18/08/2019 19:04

I'm sorry but as someone who spent their childhood in the USA and who now raises kids in the UK, you're doing the UK a huge disservice by visiting for 7 days and claiming it's idyllic in America by comparison.

Ironically I grew up on the east coast, also not far from a major city in a suburb and while it was a perfectly acceptable childhood it's no better than here! It's just different! And not necessarily for the better like you portray.

Sure children may play out in the evening but probably 90% of those children also spend their whole summer being shuffled from camp to camp - even when their parents may not both work. Sport is hugely competitive and can be soul destroying (I speak from experience in excelling at some but bombing at others). Academics may start later but when I moved my school was FAR behind what we had been doing in the UK.

In these so called idyllic suburbs, for parents there is a huge pressure to keep up appearances, send your kids to a better uni than the rest, have a good career, a big house and SUV, be fit and tanned and have your nails done, show how "blessed" you are...

Meanwhile your kids backpack is next to a bullet proof one at Target, they take part in active shooter drills as a matter of course, you're one redundancy away from losing your vital healthcare, and in these places the cost of living can actually be a lot higher than you think.

It really hurts to hear people slag off the UK when other countries so obviously have major issues too. Yet these people have no experience of caring for elderly parents in a place with no NHS, having the experience of feeling guilty your parents spent 100k dollars plus on your college education, bringing up kids in very homogeneous communities where racism is far more rampant than it appears, or finding themselves queuing up for their unemployment check .

Please, don't be so silly. In many ways the UK is such a caring, inclusive place where my children are learning they aren't superior to the next person or competing against them. Like anywhere, we could improve but idealising other places won't get us there.

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 19:23

I thought I recognised Maine instantly from the non-locked-doors situation. That would be exceptionally rare anywhere else; felt strange to find somewhere this is the norm

Non-locked doors here too; suburb of a major city miles from Maine.

Dental and vision care are free to low income kids in many states of the US too, as is prenatal and maternity care.

AmateurSwami, having brought up five DCs in the US I can state very confidently that the sort of craze you see in the UK over toys (the 'must have' toys) clothes, shoes, schoolbags (the 'must have' gear) isn't a thing in the US. It may well be that this is related to the no uniform norm in the US.

orangina I brought up my DCs in a MC suburb that is racially integrated, non-homogenous, and not full of skinny women with their nails done. The number one choice of university for kids in every graduation year was the state U, with the local community college a close second - lots of kids hoping to transfer after two years. It's very much Bernie Sanders yard signs all the way here.

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 19:25

sorry but if you visited a suburb of one city that one time and asked three people, you are not an expert, just a gasbag

So hopefully you are not going to discount the experiences of people who actually live there and have also lived in the UK?

TomPinch · 18/08/2019 19:35

@MadgeMidgerson

Right you are. I misread the table. In the first one it should be (for education): Canada and Ireland good; NZ middling; UK and US crap.

However, that is a detraction from my main point which is that none of the Anglophone countries in those two lists are strong performers overall. In fact, they're outperformed by poorer countries. If you're a UK parent wanting to bring up your child somewhwere else, you're better just making a short trip across the North Sea. In particular, I had expected Canada to do better.

Perhaps Unicef didn't spend long in Canada Wink.

Owlbabie5 · 18/08/2019 19:35

Non locked doors on Cape Cod when we were there.

Yy to the clothes thing, it’s the same for adults too. We’ve been exploring all sorts of places. I love the way when hiking nobody is in designer outdoor gear but just stuff they’ve thrown on ( a souvenir T-shirt and shorts)and trainers. I live near a NP in the UK and honestly the gear you see at times. Cyclists in full body armour for a tiny loop. As an aside can I just say it’s a joy to hike without rampaging dogs. They are all on leads and waaay better behaved. The wildlife is respected far more so you see more. I’m forever seeing dogs let lose in the UK near nesting birds and lambs. I think we’re lazier in the UK, we hike smaller distances so let them run all over the place to burn off energy. In the US the humans( elderly, kids and families) seem to walk further with their very happy dogs on leads. We went sea kayaking quite a long way, ditto. In our group there was nobody in designer shades and gear costing a fortune, not even the instructor. I love the way nobody dresses up in non fine dining restaurants too.

Owlbabie5 · 18/08/2019 19:36

Loose

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 19:38

Soz I thought I was clear - people’s holiday impressions are not an accurate basis for sweeping judgements about an entire country

Living there for some time is a better basis, but even so, given the federal nature of both Canada and the US things will vary from province to province, and state to state in a way they simply don’t between counties in England, or even between nations in the UK.

What is sauce for the goose in Montreal is not for the gander in Newfoundland

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 20:04

Owlbabies' descriptions actually don't vary in the US.
I have been here since 1988, and have traveled widely.
Ordinary casual clothing worn everywhere, hiking gear = T-shirt and shorts plus boots and baseball cap, or fleece - people dress for the weather, not to impress. You find people from all walks of life chowing down on hot dogs or nachos at a baseball game, drinking beer from Solo cups, singing along with the music.

There are huge differences between NI and most of southern England, huge differences between Glasgow and Bristol.

MarshaBradyo · 18/08/2019 20:09

Thinking about this craze thing we’ve had Rubik’s cube, UNO, fidget spinners, bottle flipping. Not heinous not to far from marbles etc. Fortnite for teens but surely same in US? Can’t find stats / percentage other than it tops lists.

Birthday parties are whatever level you like. UK people talk about big style weddings, baby showers, gender reveals coming from US - is it just birthday parties that are different?

Anyway I’ve no doubt places like Maine are nice but I think this thread feels too skewed.

Lastly dc couldn’t care less about brands they’re not unusual

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 20:14

ok, @mathanxiety, you know best.

I genuinely did not think it was a controversial opinion to suggest that a person needed to spend some time ina place before claiming to know what it is like to live there,but it seems in doing so, I got right up your nose.

apologies for suggesting that people resident in a country might know it better than those there for 7 days on holiday, and as well for suggesting that life in downtown Vancouver might differ substantially from life in Iqualuit, and thus experience of one doesn’t mean you can generalize about the other.

Mea culpa

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 20:17

For reference, I was replying to @SusanneLinder who posted that health care isn’t free in Canada, and kids don’t play out because of drugs and shootings

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 20:18

It's not controversial.

But many people living in the US who have experience of life in the UK have confirmed her impressions.

Are you going to accept that those opinions might reflect a deeper encounter with US life?

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 20:21

I have in no way referenced owlbaby’s post except when I said I had not referenced it

Are you ok? How have I offended you?

mathanxiety · 18/08/2019 20:23

Birthday parties are whatever level you like. UK people talk about big style weddings, baby showers, gender reveals coming from US - is it just birthday parties that are different?

What passes for US style events in the UK is a far cry from the US originals.

Hard to put my finger on it, but there is a grabbiness and lack of manners associated especially with what the UK fondly calls a 'baby shower'.

There is also, to judge from threads here, an assumption that it is the element of grabbiness and self-importance in UK style baby showers that comes from the US. Nothing could be further from the truth.

MadgeMidgerson · 18/08/2019 20:24

And I am in Canada Right. Now.

In a Tim Hortons, no less.

Health care is free in Canada to legal residents. It is not available at Tim Hortons.

To sum up, I wish to confirm:

Health care is free in Canada
Kids not playing out in Canadian suburbs due to drugs and shootings seems implausible
7 days visiting a friend in a suburb is not a valid basis for making a conclusion about what it is like to live in a country