To think if you can't keep your child quiet .....

[MozzchopsThirty]

Don't come to the pub and ruin it for all the other patrons

Two children behaving beautifully (or as lovely as toddlers can be) one clearly just being a brat

It's so sad how intolerant some people in the UK are to children.

My children are used to eating out and are normally very well-behaved, but they've had their moments on the odd occasion, when they are a bit tired or just suddenly have the hump for no rational reason.

We've been all over the world with them, to America, Spain Greece, etc. These countries have always welcomed children with open arms and it's always such a culture shock to come home again and experience how hostile some grown adults can be towards little children.

I have no issue with noisy children I do have issue with parents not making effort to parent!

That's exactly it - we all know small children can be totally random, overtired or just having one of those days. When the parent is making no attempt to manage the behaviour I become irritated.

It's so sad how intolerant some people in the UK are to children.
Correction - people are intolerant of disruptive, rude and badly behaved children.

simplekindoflife isn’t context key though? Just because you’re having a glass of wine in a pub and are annoyed by a child running around screaming doesn’t mean you are intolerant of children.

I know people keep calling pubs adult spaces but they’re really not in many cases. Not near here and not during the day.

It’s changed a lot since smoking pubs of old.

I avoid any pub with a garden with kids area, kids menu and large car park.

Job done,

@simplekindoflife
I don’t think people in the UK are generally intolerant of children. More a case of intolerant of badly behaved children.
I’m sure if you’ve been out somewhere and you’re children have been tired or suddenly have the hump for no reason, you wouldn’t just let them misbehave and run riot.

Wow you’ve described an 18mo as a brat... that is horrendous. Also I’ve seen more shitty disruptive and disrespectful behaviour from adults in a pub than I’ve seen from even the noisiest child. Are you saying that any family should not be allowed to go to a pub for a meal if they have children? If so where does it stop for the sake of YOUR comfort? Coffee shops for the stressed Mum who just wants some time out of the house with her LO? Buses and trains at peak times because they should stick to times where people aren’t commuting from/too work? Seriously?? Get a fucking grip.

No kids menu, car park or play area though just loads of families

I was in a local restaurant this afternoon and a family were eating at the table beside us.

The parents clearly had their hands full with four young children, all under ten.

The two eldest were very well behaved, two girls with about two years between them.

Then there were two little boys, both in high chairs. One of them was about 2.5 and the other around 18 months.

The 2.5 year old kept squealing, really loud screams for no reason at all.

The mother was at one side of the table between this child and the eldest daughter whilst the father was at the opposite side between the youngest son and the other daughter.

Not once did either parent tell the screaming child to stop. In fact the mother spent a lot of time telling the eldest child to stop looking at the boy (she was in the same row as him, with the mum between them, nor sure how she was looking at the boy)

Anyway, they must just have arrived before we did as they were there for the majority of the time we were there.

The parents had a row at the table because the father told her to leave the girl alone.

We were right beside them and i felt very anxious the whole time. I felt sorry for the girl but also for the parents, they were quite young and seemed overwhelmed. The father left the table after the row with his wife/partner and played the poker machine at the door of the restaurant, leaving her to toilet and strap the children into their buggies.

She was angry or I might have offered a hand with the younger children.

It wasn't a children's restaurant as such, there is no toys or play frames, but they do have kids meals on the menu!

I had my teenagers with me, one who struggles with anxiety and she kept jumping when the boy screamed. It wasn't chilled out dining at all....

When we were leaving to go home they were sitting at a bus stop near the shopping centre. I hadn't noticed them until ds said "man I'm glad I'm not going on that bus...."

YABU for expecting silence at school concerts - no one wants to be at those anyway.

My DCs head teacher politely but firmly will tell the parent to take their child out, it is also made clear in all communications leading up to said events.

We take our toddler out for pub meals loads. She is beautifully behaved. If you do it regularly enough, go at the right time, have a compliant child and engage them in conversation it can be a pleasant experience. We’ve never given her a tablet at the table. Saying that children can only go to a harvester is restrictive. They have to learn how to behave in the restaurant environment.

I agree with @Duchessgummybuns

I think it depends on the behaviour of the child and what you deem unreasonable. It also depends on the type of pub you are going to. I'm assuming there was a screaming child who you are referring to as the "brat"

I think if you are going to a pub with a play area and childs menu, you are naive to think all the children will be seated and quiet.

Personally before we had children we would go to restaurants that were very unlikely to have children in and the same with pubs.

Ha other random adults eating is often worse especially in pubs

Wow you’ve described an 18mo as a brat... that is horrendous
No it's not. Little bastard, cunt, fucking piece of shit, they're all horrendous. 'Brat' is nothing - being 18 months old doesn't preclude you from being irritating

WTF have I just read

Depends on the behaviour and age of the child. A moving baby to around 3 years old is a really tricky age and some toddlers this age are difficult in public spaces. Yet they do need to be exposed to these spaces so they learn how to behave. I’m not suggesting that bad or really disruptive behaviour should be tolerated but I do understand how difficult it is. A badly behaved 6 year old that isn’t being correctly disciplined is totally different. My DS1 was tricky at 18 months, DS2 who is that age now is much easier. Same parenting, different kids.

I think some pubs need to think carefully before advertising themselves as family friendly. I generally don’t take my kids to pubs but I took DS1 to a christening when he was 18 months old and the after party was in a pub. The website advertised that it was a family friendly establishment with high chairs. When we got there they only had one high chair which was already being used so DS had to eat on our laps which was a bit messy, I cleaned up but still got tutted at by the staff . I got up to change his nappy after the meal and was moaned at for walking around with him while the rest of the party were eating. We left shortly afterwards. I wasn’t surprised to hear that it went out of business less than a year later!

No it's not. Little bastard, cunt, fucking piece of shit, they're all horrendous. 'Brat' is nothing - being 18 months old doesn't preclude you from being irritating.

I've been on Mumsnet for twelve years now and this has to be the shiftiest comment I've read. Calling a baby bastard, cunt, piece of shit for doing what babies do?

There's only one cunt in this thread and it isn't the eighteen month old baby crying.

Slightly different setting but we've just returned from an upmarket all inclusive resort. It has the usual buffet restaurant with special children's food and 'nice' restaurants you have to pre-book. We went to a seafood restaurant a couple of nights ago. It has a formal dress code eg long trousers for men so clearly trying to be a bit more upmarket than the buffet. Our booking was for 9. At the table next to us, there were three dcs under the age of 5. Each one took a turn to scream or yell. One even threw a frisbee around. The mother was getting hammered on the bottomless wine and stared straight at us with a look that said Don't you dare say a fucking word. Absolute nightmare and very pissing off when you're paying a lot to stay in a place like that. My dcs are teenagers now but I would and have taken them out of restaurants for being too loud when younger.

cadburyegg
But there's a difference between a tricky 18month old with a parent actively parenting, settling the child, redirecting them,removing them from a situation and so on and an 18 month old that is being loud, disruptive etc as the parent does nothing at all.

Babies can't help crying, but if someone brings them to a school play they should take them out. Same principles for a range of ages. If a parent isn't willing to parent their child then they shouldn't expect the world to tolerate disruptive noisy behaviour.

@AllergicToAverage
I was shocked too when I read that, but on reading it again, I think what GibbonLover is actually saying is that those words would be described as horrendous, but the word “brat” isn’t actually that bad.

I've been on Mumsnet for twelve years now and this has to be the shiftiest comment I've read. Calling a baby bastard, cunt, piece of shit for doing what babies do?

That’s not what she said. She said that if someone had used those words to describe a toddler then that would be horrendous, brat is not.