To think that there is a worrying rise of The Pushy Parent?

[ShutTheDough]

I visited my friend last week who has moved to Cambridge and happened to meet some of her friends. My friend is very down to earth and I would say has a very relaxed style of parenting. I was quite surprised about how much they invested in their children. Not saying that's a bad thing obviously but it all seemed like alot of pressure on the children. One of them already had the careers set out for their DC.
It just seemed all a bit intense tbh.

"I would imagine having Mandarin studied outside of school is going to increase the strength of personal statement for subjects like International Relations, Politics, plus obviously any combined course with Chinese language.

Daughter studied a degree that was Politics/International Relations plus a couple of other things at one of the UK's top universities. She did French to A-Level but studied no other languages. (A year of German when she was younger maybe) No Duke of Edinburgh. No sports teams. After she was about 12 I didn't take her to any activities whatsoever - though would sometimes drive her round to friends houses. And we'd have family outings, holidays etc.

She was/is clever, had good grades, was enthusiastic about politics, could express herself and engage in discussion with the people who interviewed hrt.

Perhaps my husband and I helped by buying a daily broadsheet newspaper and the fact we'd talk about current affairs. But we did that because that's what we were interested in doing - rather than because we wanted to buy her any particular kind of future.

...'her' not 'hrt'.....

I wander if some of it is geography as well as houses get smaller/not everyone can 'play out' safely etc/people don't all know their neighbours.
So you end up going to lots of clubs so the DC can be active and see other DC after school.

@WalkofShame

I just felt that way. My children got more attention in private schools because of the small classes. For example my son took History A level and there only 10 in his class. I am not saying all schools are like that btw

@Stinkycatbreath why is something that does not affect you make you so angry? So are we all not to be high achievers and aspire to achieve a 3rd because it has worked for you? They might not give a stuff about your qualifications at your job, but they certainly did when I was applying for mine. One shoe doesn't fit all. A plan is not definitive, life happens. It is simply a "map" that offers guidance and encourages determination, commitment and hard work.

I don't think you can have the right 'map' without knowing your child. And children develop at different rates and in different ways. You have to keep using new maps I think. Or finding new paths on the map you have. Or even - God forbid - getting some input about directions from the child themselves.

Rather than pushing the child out of your vagina and then thinking, 'Right where's my map?'

BumblebeeBum Can I ask - those that work and their kids do activities - how? I’m a single working Mum to two and I can’t work out how to get my kids to after school activities without leaving work early.

I guess I could have one kid in childcare while I take the other to an activity and then swap another day. Seems an inefficient use of childcare money and all of our time though.

Kids are in primary so a limited number of after school clubs at the school itself.

If anyone has any ideas, I’d really appreciate it.

I do it by a mix of:

• sharing with another parent or two (so you do the gym run once every three weeks but take two other kids) and doing a deal with work about making up time once the kids are in bed
• finding activities locally so the older one can walk herself there (her primary lets them leave alone from Y5)
• asking around for someone who can pick up from school and walk / bus the kids to an activity and then home. Doesn’t need to be formal childcare, and works out cheaper than After School Club.

And I’m lucky enough to have local grandparents, so they help out, too.

@HostofDaffodils not sure how you reached that's conclusion based on what I said. As I said, life happens and no plan is definitive (which means there is and must be room for adjustments when and where necessary).

Judy Murray was called a pushy parent. I guess it worked out for Jamie and Andy.

I can’t get worked up about how other parents raise their children. I’m raising mine, my way. If it works for us, great.

Gladiolus45 move over on the slack-mother's bench and let me while away some time with you.

I have done extra curricular with the kids (over the years) but only if they asked. They also have them up when they chose.
We've done riding, netball, Karate, ballroom dancing , canoeing and CCF (combined cadet force) . Some for a few weeks . Some for a few years.

My only rule was nothing at weekends and no more than one activity a week in primary and two while in early secondary school years. (After that quite able to choose how much/little they wanted to do for themselves)

The reason for this was that I simply don't agree with it. School day is long enough . I certainly wouldn't of encouraged or supported anything of an academic nature outside of school. Hell I don't even agree with homework. ! (And would never allow it in primary with the exception of spelling and reading) .

Like you I have always encouraged critical thinking and debate. They are valuable skills but can be developed in family time.
Weekends are family time whilst small and not going out on their own.

IMHO childhood is such a brief time that the encouragement to play (outside if possible) to create, use their imaginations and negotiate friendships is far far more important than 'grade 8 harp' .

It's a strategy that has worked well with my 3 eldest dcs going to Cambridge, Bristol and Durham doing subjects THEY chose. For careers they want (although tbh 2 still haven't a clue - but that's also fine)

... and I've NEVER had to spend my Saturday waiting for the poor little buggers to finish at Kumon Maths 🙄.. and for that I admit - I DO feel smug..

I don't think I ever had a map or a plan.

I just think it was about what they - my daughter, my stepchildren seemed to need or want at any given time. To be healthy and happy. Yes, there were particular stages where choices had to be made a bit in advance of the event - stuff to do with schools or subjects. I found those stages pretty horrible, but my partner and I and the children got through them as best we could.

Judy Murray was called a pushy parent. I guess it worked out for Jamie and Andy.

And Richard Williams who was just inducted into the Tennis Hall of Fame. Serena and Venus seem pretty happy with his pushiness.

I lived in Cambridge for a few years and worked with all demographics of families due to work. I never really saw the pushy parent thing. Cambridge is a very international city and lots of my dc's friends had at least 1 non British parent. This meant that lots don't have family support around them- in fact none of her immediate group of friends (8kids) had any Family around. Some were also academics and only here for short time so not a lot of time to build strong relationships. So yes parents do send their kids to extra- curricular clubs but from what I've seen it's not being pushy, it's to give their children the opportunity to reduce boredom and see other kids socially (due to lack of cousins etc). We also didn't have family nearby so I sent my dc to clubs to give me a break and obviously for fun reasons. 3 hour drama club on a Sunday was a winner!

I never met any that had a career path organised for their dc, perhaps they didn't want to admit it.

I have to say I think some of these childhoods sound awful, I couldn't have thought of anything I'd rather have done less after school than go to extra mandarin or an activity that my parents had chosen. I'd rather have been out on my bike or seeing friends etc. I appreciate this isn't the same for everyone and I hate structured activities more than most.

I have been reading a few articles recently though about kids who have social / mental health troubles when every hour of the day has been organised, they struggle when they are left to their own devices. Though I guess the publishers may have had their own agenda.

A genuine question though, how do people that work, manage to fit it all in for their kids? My eldest is starting school shortly. She will be picked up from after school club between 5.30 - 6. Ill take her home (hopefully cycle in summer) she will have a snack there but I'll need to get something for her to eat, do any homework, some time to relax, and bed by 8. How do people make time for clubs? Especially if more than one child in different ones. It would be easier I guess on days I work from home but it's not a set day and still only buys me half an hour in the evening.

Judy Murray was called a pushy parent. I guess it worked out for Jamie and Andy.

The problem with that argument is we never see all the other now adults who spent their entire childhood being pushed to competitive tennis (and to have any real chance of success it is pretty all-consuming) but didn't ultimately make it. Their parents look a lot less wise, but ultimately it's luck (some sheer luck, some luck in the form of talent) that distinguishes Murray and Williams from those that essentially wrecked their child's childhood for no real outcome

@HostofDaffodils that's great. I must say, I take input from my DC's too. I do not just throw them into activities they do not wish to participate in, we have dropped numerous activities through the years and adjusted according to interest. Indeed we still do adjust when necessary. However we have to have a plan (that is open to adjustments as I mentioned) because we are to move to the US in 5 years time (this is not a plan, it is definite, provided we are all alive and healthy). It is also the reason why we opt for the IB system once the children are 13.

I would imagine having Mandarin studied outside of school is going to increase the strength of personal statement for subjects like International Relations, Politics, plus obviously any combined course with Chinese language.

I actually did politics admissions, and I can promise you that no one ever got the place because they did mandarin.

I think in terms of elite sports people the record is pretty mixed. A lot of parents were seen as verbally abusive so that as young adults the players dropped the sport. Or were successful competitors but unhappy individuals.

There is also the problem of how when one's life has been so focused around one activity they can continue after their fitness levels change. Some sports people adapt - others develop drug problems and squander their earnings.

And, of course, sport has been full of abusive coaches. (Gymnastics. Football. Sometimes cricket.) So parents may often have pushed their children into the care of unscrupulous individuals.

Obviously if a child loves sport and wants to succeed its great. Though I think then a parent has to take great care to make sure that they retain other interests, pass exams ets, so if there comes a point - as in most cases it does - when their sporting prowess falters, that they can regroup rather than feeling there's nothing left in their life.

Incidentally my daughter has been temping in an elite dance school. She's pretty horrified by that world. The kids don't have an all round education. The rate of injuries is horrific. And even for those people who will make a career - for a very limited time - in dance, it's hardly well-rewarded if we're talking money. They're quite literally suffering for their art.

I wonder if it is more necessary to be a 'pushy' parent, if you want to secure the best future for your child, now that it was before? Increased competition? Impact of Brexit?

I am struck by how many parents have a 'road map' for their children from a very early age and how often this leads to successful outcomes.

I actually did politics admissions, and I can promise you that no one ever got the place because they did mandarin.

Guess you didn't work at SOAS.

This whole thread has been quite illuminating for me,and I think I agree with one of the early comments about pushy parenting being propagated by intelligent, educated stay at home parents who have given up high paying jobs to be st home with their children. I work full time, as does my DH, with two primary school age children. We organise our working lives to minimise childcare, not for financial reasons, but because we prioritise time for our children to be with their parents. It feels like an anxious juggle at times, especially round the end of term when there are lots of extra things to be at school for, but mostly we rub along fine. I really don't understand how working parents would have the time for any of this hot housing. My children both play one sport and one musical instrument, and attend cubs and beavers (all at their choosing). The sport and music are weekend activities. This is absolutely the limit that I could cope with and to be honest it feels like too much at times. As it is they have one evening per week where they come home from school at 3:30 and do nothing else. We all love that evening and wish we had another.

I don't consider myself a pushy parent, but seeing what my children do written down above I think others may judge me as one. My children really enjoy all the extra curricular things they do. I have asked if they want to continue them all a number of times and the answer is always yes. I do worry about time for boredom though, always at this time of year. I worry that they aren't resilient/resourceful enough and need constant entertainment, and I tend to work from home quite often, with them in the house, to make them feel the length of summer holidays like I used to.

Unless you're training them for to be professional musicians or olympic athletes, lots of those extra-curricular activities at such a young age are pretty much a waste of time and money. I still laugh about somebody i knew, who took her toddler to art classes, and they were doing "abstract art" with finger paints. Well, with toddlers, i can show you abstract art on my kitchen floor every day

I’m wary of all anecdotal “there has been a rise in” stories.

Unless you were a parent then, and are parenting the same age group now, it is likely all you are seeing is something which seems different based on your current point of view. I have no idea who had pushy parents when I was a kid. I wasn’t aware of what parents were talking about to their peer group.

I know of one pushy parent who arranges coaching for anything her kid shows the slightest interest in. He’s going to be the next Andy Murray, the next Bradley Wiggins and was only held back from starting his uber expensive private school because he was too bright. He seems a happy enough kid, but was really hard on himself if he made a mistake. That said, DD can be the same and she’s never been pushed to the same extent.

that essentially wrecked their child's childhood for no real outcome

So nobody should ever push their children just in case they don’t make it?

For me, it's about building DS's cultural capital.

I want him to develop a base now that will reduce his chances of becoming socially isolated in the future.

I imagine the situation where he has to move alone to a new city for work. I want him to be able to join a club/ society/ group based on a skill or interest he has and use it to meet people and have a sense of belonging.

Read the 'where do you belong' thread. Several people on there said they get their sense of belonging from the orchestra or band they are in. That, for me, would be the long term point of extra-curricular music as a child. Likewise for sport- I look for 'lifelong' sports for DS so he'll always have a way of connecting with other people.

The problem with that argument is we never see all the other now adults who spent their entire childhood being pushed to competitive tennis (and to have any real chance of success it is pretty all-consuming) but didn't ultimately make it.

Exactly. You never know what could happen. I went to school with a kid whose Dad pushed him into football. Football football football every day every weekend. He was bloody good and talented enough to make it, but he broke his leg so badly he never played again. He was then left with a hole in his life where without his parents pushing him, he had no idea what to do with himself.