To think that there is a worrying rise of The Pushy Parent?

[ShutTheDough]

I visited my friend last week who has moved to Cambridge and happened to meet some of her friends. My friend is very down to earth and I would say has a very relaxed style of parenting. I was quite surprised about how much they invested in their children. Not saying that's a bad thing obviously but it all seemed like alot of pressure on the children. One of them already had the careers set out for their DC.
It just seemed all a bit intense tbh.

Is there a link between all this pressure on children and the rise in teenage suicides?

I think certain areas in the UK (and elsewhere, no doubt) are microcosms unto themselves wrt this sort of thing, and the pushiness is self-perpetuating because people do it more when they see others doing it

I very much agree with this. Little whirlpools of anxiety around certain areas or certain schools. And everyone reinforcing the behaviour in each other.

I was once given some very good advice, that it's best to do stuff with your kid that you enjoy.
Because your enthusiasm will rub off on them and it will also strengthen your relationship to share something special to you, with them.
It doesn't matter too much what that thing is. Everytime I've followed that advice it's turned out well.

I do find it profoundly ironic that those pursing the 'poor hothoused kids never get time to be bored' stereotype are also thinking in terms of career success - cf. here: 'Top universities are starting to prioritise independent thought and ideas in candidates - rather than just a string of top marks and all those predictable extra-curriculars.'

@ChechezLaVache 99.9% of none pushed kids don't blaze a trail either. 99.9% of the population does not. At least the pushed kids are financially comfortable if they go for a high earning job

There is value in doing extra-curricular activities for their own sake. The teamwork skills learned from playing in an orchestra or sports team; the perseverance of sticking with an instrument and practising regularly.

Any parent who thinks that extra-curriculat activities are going to make the difference in a UK university application is going to be disappointed. Those days are long past. One or two universities might still care (anecdotally, Durham is interested to hear about extra-curricular activities).

The rest (including Oxford and Cambridge) want to see super-curricular activities (related to the subject being applied for) but unrelated extra-curricular activities will make no difference to an application.

If they are applying for History, nearly all the personal statement would be about History. They might be able to fit in a sentence about their hobbies, but this information wouldn't be used to decide whether or not to give them an offer.

And while I'm myth-busting, there is nowhere on the UCAS form to enter a Duke of Edinburgh award, unless an aspect of it is relevant enought to include in their personal statement (e.g. volunteering in a hospital when applying for Medicine).

Thinking about this some more - I'm not at all sure that our insistence on a degree of extra-curriculars is about 'achievement'. Certainly not about getting into university. And certainly not about becoming 'the best' in the field of the activity. It really is, for me, about 'this is your interest, this is what you might be able to make out of it' (not in a 'success' sense, but in a self-competence sense). I think we would be failing our bright-but-lazy children if we didn't give them that input. (And they're absolutely swimming in resources to do their own creative thing under their own steam, and I'd like nothing better, but as I said, it's a short burst and then nothing for ages).

The PP with the dss who hung round at the akate park - I wouldn't say that was nothing. Presumably he was doing skating (or skateboarding or whatever). Skill, coordination, creativity, fresh air. And interaction with others.

And yes, I also managed to mis-spell extra-curricular.

Can I ask - those that work and their kids do activities - how? I’m a single working Mum to two and I can’t work out how to get my kids to after school activities without leaving work early.

I guess I could have one kid in childcare while I take the other to an activity and then swap another day. Seems an inefficient use of childcare money and all of our time though.

Kids are in primary so a limited number of after school clubs at the school itself.

If anyone has any ideas, I’d really appreciate it.

Any parent who thinks that extra-curricular activities are going to make the difference in a UK university application is going to be disappointed. Those days are long past. One or two universities might still care (anecdotally, Durham is interested to hear about extra-curricular activities).

I would imagine having studied outside of school is going to increase the strength of personal statement for subjects like International Relations, Politics, plus obviously any combined course with Chinese language.

A legitimate link can be made between music and mathematics.

Just as examples.

I don't think I was a pushy parent but I did want my children to have a good education so I paid for them to take their A levels at a private school which meant they got the correct grades to enable them to enter university. It was money well spent because I don't think some public schools have the resources to get pupils through A levels.

So for the PP talking about Ivy League US universities I can see why she makes her kids do all these activities. It is completely expected that your application will be accompanied by a recommendation from your swimming coach and your cello teacher and so on. SAT scores and A levels are the bare minimum. Meanwhile most top UK universities really really don’t care about extra curricular activities. So if you do want to send your kids to the States I can see why these extra activities are necessary.

Are they actually picking the children's career, or is it just a joke/look they seem to love X?
One of mine loved wheels so we used to joke he'd be working in Kwik Fit. Another was very logical and was fascinated by the computer, so we said she'd be a IT consultant.
Didn't mean anything by it.
Far more likely it's that sort of thing than the parents are seriously planning it.

Honestly speaking as an academic, personal statements are scrutinised way way less than most people realise (except for Oxbridge). Whereas in the US you have to write a narrative about your life. (So you had better have a narrative to tell in the first place).

I don't think some public schools have the resources to get pupils through A levels

why do you think that?

I would imagine having studied outside of school is going to increase the strength of personal statement for subjects like International Relations, Politics, plus obviously any combined course with Chinese language.

That would fall under 'super curricular', which that pp talked about in the next paragraph. I've been involved in university admissions (including at Cambridge, though I wasn't the final decision maker there, which I have been elsewhere) and the pp is absolutely right. Doing something, anything outside school is better than not because it shows you don't find your a levels so challenging that you can't do anything else. Showing a genuine interest for your subject which means you've pursued it outside school - great, probably in fact necessary (though doing extra reading 'counts', it doesn't have to be organised). Anything else is irrelevant and it made my heart sink when I saw a personal statement that was 50% about the subject 50% about extra curricular stuff because it meant the candidate hadn't given themselves the best possible chance, which is always a shame.

Honestly speaking as an academic, personal statements are scrutinised way way less than most people realise (except for Oxbridge). Whereas in the US you have to write a narrative about your life. (So you had better have a narrative to tell in the first place)

I think that very much depends on the course, certainly for our students the personal statements are really important but that’s because it is a clinical course so it’s not just the academic achievement which is important.

Honestly speaking as an academic, personal statements are scrutinised way way less than most people realise (except for Oxbridge).

We did read them quite carefully at the (non-Oxbridge, Russell Group) uni I worked at, but they certainly weren't the main/deciding factor.

The thing that always surprised me is how useless so many of the school references were - and that included ones where parents were paying a lot of money.

My son is three at this age there are children in his nursery school who are already showing significant signs of stress. Children need down time to play and not to be frog marched from one activity to another. It sounds worse in London and quite frankly the whole thing is going to set this generation up for mental health issues. Why are people doing this? Don't understand why you would need to plan I primary school for an Ivy League university place . It makes me pretty angry. I've been to university but just went to Salford so not Ivy league but just fine. I'm not a high achiever and came out with a third with honours. Nobody gives a stuff and I am doing well in a job I love doing something that matters. I believe in giving children opportunities through education and sport etc but it's awful to think of those extreme cases where a child is pushed so hard. I hope one day they turn around to their parents and tell then how it feels. The world has gone too far let children be children.

I'd tend to agree with the idea that it's about sharing stuff that you enjoy yourself. (Though obviously when a child develops some completely different interest you support that too.)

So it was easy for me to take my daughter to the library and talk about books with her. We'd watch anime films together. I used to work in an industry which meant I got a lot of free tickets for kids theatre, dance etc. There'd be walks. Lots of puzzles and games. Naturally when she was in her teens these were all rejected, as uncool - and she'd hang out with her mates apparently doing nothing in particular quite a bit.

But as an adult she seems to enjoy all these things we did when she was smaller, once again.. She's just on the verge of sorting out a flatshare for her first longterm job and is talking about how she and her flatmates are planning to have nights in so they can play boardgames together...

I am quite a pushy parent. I think I have a good balance in my DC's lives though because I get feedback from other parents and teachers about how confident and well adjusted my DC are.

I work with a lot of young adults whose problems all stem from poor parenting and lack of guidance and boundaries. So, as far as I am concerned being an attentive and a little pushy is a very good thing.

Omg! I think sometimes we appear pushy to outsiders because our children are very busy, but we are nothing like this! We have said they need to do an active club twice a week (for fitness,but their choice of which, and they actually ended up doing more than twice a week through their choice) and an instrument (their choice of which). They had to learn to swim. We insist on homework being done and help with it where necessary. Compared to these posts we are positively neglectful 😂😂😂

I meant to say

"I would imagine having Mandarin studied outside of school is going to increase the strength of personal statement for subjects like International Relations, Politics, plus obviously any combined course with Chinese language."

Makes more sense now! Oops!

I feel so sorry for some of the kids mentioned here. I cannot believe that their parents don't value childhood enough to let their children be children. There is no time in their lives for playing or chilling with their mates.

Lots of extra curricular activities does not always make for the most creative, driven and happy children.

I completely agree with this. My DH has a friend who was “pushy”; her DD did an enormous range of activities to the point that you couldn’t arrange a day to see them (“Saturday is Chinese school and ice skating; Sunday is swimming, piano and tennis” - that sort of thing). Her DD went to a top, super selective school. She’s now late teens and apparently suffers from all sorts of emotional problems. Was that related? Who knows. But she certainly didn’t have a “relaxed” childhood.

The other problem with constantly scheduling children is that they’re always told what to do. It’s actually quite a passive experience; you’re just spoonfed. You go where you’re told and do what you’re told. And, in my experience at least, often the smartest people are those who are able to sort out something different to do for themselves.....

I probably appear a push parent my DD under takes 6 extra-curricular activities, but they are all performing art based. This is driven by her not me ( she would do more given half a chance). She would love to make this career her teachers tell me she has talent so I am doing everything I can to support her in this. But this has to be paired with a good academic back so she knows she needs to work hard at school and get GCSEs. She is entering year 11 in September and it will appear that she is on some treadmill, but it is her choice not mine.