To want to see DS 14’s phone

[Frexit]

DS (14) has recently become very secretive with his phone. Always placing it face down, putting it in airplane mode if he has to leave it charging anywhere so no messages/WhatsApp’s come through, getting really ansty if I ask him who he’s messaging etc.

We were on holiday last week and he spent all the time we were at our cottage in his room, on his phone, usually with headphones in. Occasionally he could be heard talking to someone but not who and when asked lied and told me it was a friend of his which I know it wasn’t because I happened to be in contact with his mum at that moment and I knew her DS was doing an activity. A couple of times he quickly shut it down when I came into the room.

In the past I’ve gone into his phone to look at some of his messaging, particularly at a time when he was having some friendship issues at school. I did this without his knowledge. Now, I have no idea of his password and if I asked to see his phone then I know the answer would be no.

My AIBU is about wanting to know what he’s doing and why he’s being so secretive. It could just be he has a girl he’s in touch with but he denies it. I’m just not sure how to navigate between his right to privacy and my responsibility to check that all is ok and he’s not doing anything dodgy.

I do try and talk to him but just get attitude back. I don’t feel like I can have constructive conversation with him about anything right now.

Is it normal for boys to be so secretive about girls, assuming that that’s what it is? He’s my eldest so no experience of teens to draw on.

@thisoldcrapagain as you are a teacher and my questions relate to the topic of the thread may I ask:
How often do they teach online safety and how to act responsibly on social media at school?
Also what are the different punishments for the different wrongdoings?

@Summersunshine2 We reach about it from Reception upwards. We have e-safety weeks and lessons regularly, we have parents in for workshops about e-safety.

Why would it be school's responsibility to put in place any punishments? If there was inappropriate use of school equipment - eg internet searches etc, then that is investigated and addressed, but if it's out of school, on personal equipment, then surely it's the parents responsibility?

@Summersunshine2 Teach not reach

The Breck Bednar story really affected me, more so than other tragic stories I've heard about. I think it's because of the way his mum speaks about him, you can really see just how much pain she's in.

@Nix32 thanks for your reply.
I was asking 'thisoldcrapagain' about school punishment as they mentioned pictures being hung in school corridors (horrendous). I wondered if that was instant expulsion etc.
My own DS school seem to punish students if they do things to another student out of school too as they seem to view that as within their remit.
I fully agree it is the parents responsibility.

Mu concern would be sending/receiving inappropriate images and/or sexting- very common in this age group but also putting him in a very vulnerable position.
Another would be drugs/county lines

Also at 14 I frequently checked dd phone and she left it downstairs overnight

I rarely check my son's phone but he knows that I am able to do and wouldn't hesitate to if I was concerned about him.

I think this in itself is enough for him to think about what he sends/posts etc.

The key difference between a diary to a phone is the potential for harm. A diary is, by definition, private so you can write whatever you want without any repercussions. This is not true for a phone.

Morning all. I had another look at DS’s phone in the night because I couldn’t sleep. I looked at his photos and he had taken screenshots of some of the messages they’ve sent to each other. They have ‘known’ each other less than a fortnight, have never met but are deeply in love, have never felt like this, can’t wait to hold and kiss each other and find each other sexy and totally fit. No apparent plans to meet up but seems like it’s only a matter of time. I’m blown away by the intensity of the exchanges, how grown up my DS sounds in the words he’s using and the sentiments expressed albeit within the context of an obviously immature relationship. It’s been a real eye opener for me. I’m suddenly seeing him in a whole new light and I need to get with the programme fast. I feel a bit emotional actually at the evidence in front of me of him growing up and away. I also feel a bit grubby for having intruded into something so personal if I’m honest.

I’m sharing the above as I think it was thisoldcrap who talked about how intense these messaging relationships can be and I can totally see how the intimacy they’ve created between them could lead very quickly to exchanging pictures etc. I never imagined my DS was at this stage. He’s so socially immature in many ways compared to his peers. Anyway, if this thread helps anyone else then I’ll be pleased and I’m so glad I posted. Thanks

He either shows you or you cancel his contract. End of.

As for the update and how serious it has become so quickly are you happy that you have read his messages now and if it all goes tits up you'll know why and be able to handle it and help him through his emotions rather than wondering why your sweet immature little boy is all of a sudden desperately sad.

That's this thing for everyone bashing on about privacy. We need to help our children with the fallout of their relationships, be it romantic or not and often these relationships move very very quickly and go bad quickly. If they have to handle them alone it's so hard for it not to totally take over their life and they then feel bogged down busy it and their emotions take over. Whereas if you see a dodgy message, wether sexual or nasty or just a bit 🤨, you can use your experience and help then steer the situation in a way which will stop or just change course.

My very very grown up 14 year old ended up getting messages telling him to kill himself from a boy at school. It was the most dreadful experience for us all as a family as we had to immediately pull him out of school for his own safety. If I had seen the messages in the run up to the truly dreadful ones it would not have escalated so quickly and the outcome could have been very very different.

Please please do check your child's phone on a regular basis and if I were you I'd sit down with your son and talk about how quickly it's moved and the depth of their feelings so when it does go tits up he can manage his emotions in an appropriate way.

Thanks bloomburger for sharing your experience. It sounds horrendous and I’m glad you were in a position to intervene. I need to work out how I’m going to approach this with DS. His default mode is obviously to be secret and not open and so I need to think through how I approach things so as not to drive him further underground if that makes sense. My other DC has severe SN and takes up a huge amount of our time and attention. I’m now thinking that it’s made me be a bit too absent from DS’s world although he and I have always had a very very close relationship in terms of shared interests and being affectionate with each other, I’ve just realised that I’ve neglected to have some important conversations with him, wrongly assuming that he wasn’t in that place yet. I feel like this episode is definitely positive and I will make some changes.

@Summersunshine2 I teach in a secondary school and we teach internet safety in S1 & S2 (Scottish system, 11,12, 13 year olds. For S2 we use the Breck Bednar story along with others from the ‘Think U Know’ website (it’s pretty good).
IMO it’s too late and not enough. Many kids have phones from a much younger age with little or no supervision.
It’s terrifying how many kids have no security settings, post their snapchat or mobile numbers on Instagram or FB for all to see.

As for punishments the one who put the photos in the corridor was talked to by the police and excluded (suspended) for 3 days. Expulsion is not really a thing now, it’s all about inclusion. The boy should have been prosecuted as he was distributing sexual images of a child. But so was the girl who sent them to him and it was felt she had suffered enough.
Many children (and adults tbf) have no idea that if an under 16 takes a naked photo of themselves and sends it to someone they themselves could end up on the sex offenders register

To be honest, I think that now you know what it is, ie that he has a potential girlfriend, you can probably stop worrying. That all sounds like very, very normal 14-year-old stuff. You say you're a bit shocked by how intense it is ... but teen relationships have always been pretty intense, long before the days of the internet. I can remember being that age and everyone being incredibly intense and melodramatic about relationships! It's what teenagers do. It will be fine.

I don't think you should tell him that you read his messages to the girl, either. It will be such an embarrassing conversation for him, and I do think there are some things no teenager wants to (or should have to) discuss with his parents. You've already told him about not sending pictures etc, and he honestly sounds like a normal, pretty sensible boy.

Oh wait, actually, I just re-read your post and you mention he and the girl have never met. In that case, I think the next step would be to look at her Facebook profile if she has one and just make sure it seems legit and not some obviously fake thing full of stolen pictures in which she looks incredibly glam...!

In general the school will help with bullying that happens outside school. Inappropriate use of school equipment leads to a ban on them using it. They might not be allowed to take a phone to school or have to leave it with SLT during school hours.
Really though it’s the responsibility of parents - parents buy the device, the pay for the contract or top ups. School has zero control over whether parents allow phones in bedrooms, unrestricted internet/online gaming, no monitoring of online activity and no checks on when they use it.
The number of pupils falling asleep in class because they were playing games or watching YouTube at 3am is appalling.
Schools are here to educate. Parents are supposed to parent.
Unfortunately more and more it’s left to schools to do both.

So he's having a very intense relationship with a 'girl' he's never met.

I would have a look at the CEOPS website and see if you can find anything you can watch together. But you need to start talking to him. Teenagers' brains are very plastic and they get carried away very easily. You need to find out a bit more about who this person is because if they haven't actually chatted on the phone and only messaged, I'd be very surprised if she's a girl his age.

There are all sorts of scams where kids can get sucked in - eg 'she' persuades him to send her a dick pic and then blackmails him; 'she' gets him to buy loads of stuff online etc way before you get to people who want to murder children. But none of it is good

I will be looking at resources tonight. He’s been FaceTiming this girl lots. Ive seen pictures of her. Ive seen her in a uniform from our local school so I’m pretty sure she’s a mate of a mate. But I agree I need to talk to him about it, in some detail and quite quickly. I just need to educate myself a bit more on the risks because to be honest the scenario that she might be some scammer hadn’t even occurred to me before I’d seen the pictures of her.

CEOP website

Story in a Scottish paper today

Only read first and final page, OP, but wanted to put in my halfpennys worth.

I was glad to see first page full of posters saying you have a right to access your DC's social media. People talk about privacy - but social media is not private! Even for adults as it happens. I think you should include that in your conversation with your son.

Re. access - I think its right to require access at any time to all social media and passwords or remove phone. If they don't want to do that - fine - don't give them a phone in the first place, tell them they can have a £20 payg instead! Unfortunately, for many parents, they have already given a phone before they realise the difficulties and issues they raise. And it can then be hard to change things. I speak from experience (DS now 16).

Sex - it looks like he needs some personal and moral guidance now, as you say OP, maybe some legal guidance too. I think you may have a point re. him needing more family attention. I know girls sometimes get involved young sexually because of lack of love and attention at home, and I don't see why its different for boys. Of course, it could be equally nothing to do with that, so don't beat yourself up. You sound like a really good parent who cares, and this might be a time to show it.

There has been much discussion on thread about 'rights' and 'privacy' and yes a 14year old does have the right to privacy:

In the UK, human rights are protected by the Human Rights Act 1998. The Act gives effect to the human rights set out in the European Convention on Human Rights. Article 8 - the right to respect for your family and private life, your home and your correspondence is one the rights protected by the Human Rights Act.

Your child also has those rights, whether you as a parent like it or not. Your child - with Gillick Competence has the right to seek medical treatment, get contraceptives and even book herself in for an abortion without any parental consent.

I do agree that alot of it sounds normal teenage crush stuff as well, I hope my post didn't come across too alarming! I think my issue is that social media can really intensify and sexualise stuff and that is the danger - plus its all on a public forum even if its meant to be private its obviously not. Friends show each other what they're crush has written and so on and so forth and if there is anything dodgy there can be serious consequences.

I was having sex at 14, so while the messages seem intense, they are probably pretty normal for this age range. The first ones always are. Romeo and Juliet was written about young teens after all.

I think the important bit is building a relationship with your teens that enable them to be open with you, but also accepting that there will always be things teens find hard to talk about. I think it is good to make them aware that their phones will be spot checked, but also important for a parent to know how easy it is to hide things with VPN, snapchat etc and many teenagers are familiar with this. Also you need to keep having conversations continually that you may think they are too young for, but they probably aren't. My friend always starts them when she is in the car with her son so he can't run away

I do think children are entitled to privacy, but also you have to balance this with safety.

You can't keep them safe from everything of course, my friends son had seen hardcore porn at 12 from a friend who didn't have parental controls. But you can educate them and use the phone check as a way to open uncomfortable conversations.

Yep, general talking and communication, conversation is the most important way to go. I'm amazed how parents, even in the 1970s, just let their teens get on with it; I do believe there was a kind of neglect or naievity, I'm not sure which, sometimes a bit of both. And I include my own parents in that.

I think parents have to be more involved today with their children teens, because the world wide web opens them up to a lot more danger and corruption and other people's values which may be Geordie Shore or worse presented as normal. Its not just your school, your home, and your best friends as in previous times. Parents have to be clearer with their values and expressing them to their kids in a way that wasn't so necessary before.

Anyway thats what I think.

I think those who think kids have "internet privacy" are thinking in terms of their own teen years. That was pre-season facebook/insta, etc., pre- webcams, and when social media were IRC types of chatrooms. Yes, then it was relatively private, you could be totally anonymous, and log off anytime. also much fewer people having internet. Not the case now.

Reading with interest as my 14 yo step child has total freedom of use of a smartphone and laptop with neither parent checking anything and no parental controls in place. There is also unrestricted access to Netflix and some of what is being watched is definitely not age appropriate (it shows up on user profile).

It’s certainly not what I will allow for my own children. Agree with posters saying that the ability to check is really important and part of the deal.