To confront SIL's about exclusion of DD?

[CorkNight]

DD is 14. She has 2 aunties on her dad’s side and 3 uncle’s. Today she came up to me and asked if me or DH had fallen out with either of the SIL’s. I said no and asked why and she showed me a Facebook post of one SIL’s. Both SIL’s, SIL1’s DD16, SIL2’s step DD’s 12 and 14 and one of my BIL’s DD15 were all on the Eurostar. They are going to Paris and come back Wednesday. SIL described it as a “girly holiday”. There are a couple of other nieces via BIL’s but they either are at uni or have young DC so they are irrelevant. DD was confused as to why she wasn’t invited. If it was just SIL1 and SIL2 with their DD’s I could put it down to a sister trip but they have invited BIL’s daughter and SIL1 posted about how she can’t wait to spend time with her nieces.

DD has been invited to trips with her aunties in the past and I’ve always paid for everything and DD has always had a nice time. But things have been strange with DH’s family for a while now. We moved in June and I made a groupchat of all the siblings (DH doesn’t bother with Facebook) and said “Who would be up for a house warming on X weekend?”. Only of the SIL’s replied and said “If we have nothing else on we’ll come x.” Needless to say housewarming never happened. On weekend me and DD were shopping in the city and DH rang to say a BIL had popped round. I said “Oh we’ll come home then and say hi.” and then DH said “Oh well he’s going in a minute.”. Soon after that some of DH’s siblings went to a festival and we weren’t invited.

DD’s exclusion from the Paris trip though has really twisted the knife in. She loves her aunties and cousins. She’s had an awful time with bullying and exlusion from friends at school (her aunties know this) and so her mental health is already in tatters and so to be excluded by her family as well has destroyed her. I confided in my sister about it damn near tears and my sister has been lovely and has arranged to treat DD on Friday. The thing is, DH doesn’t seem arsed about any of it. He just says “Well we couldn’t afford to pay for DD’s Paris anyway.” Which is completely besides the point and as she’s had such a shit time lately I’d have scraped together the money for her to go and have a nice time with her cousin’s. DH denies it but I think we have done something to upset his family (honestly can’t think what) and they have spoken to him about it but he doesn’t want to tell me. He hates conflict and is a bit spineless so rather than go “Okay I’ll speak to my wife about it and see if we can sort this.” he’d just avoid it and keep us seperate.

I want to get to the bottom of this for DD’s sake more than anything, she keeps saying “Well I must just be bad company so why should they invite me?”. This has really damaged her. Would I be unreasonable to contact a SIL? “DD has seen you have gone away without her and is very upset, she’s already having a hard time as you all know and is devastated that she’s been excluded by her aunts who she adores. I suspect me or DH have done something which has upset you all and you have spoken to DH about it but you know what he’s like and he won’t tell me. Could you please tell me what the issue is so we can sort it and I can tell your heartbroken niece that it’s not her?”.

If you want to help your daughter navigate through life, teach her that not everyone thinks things through to the level she’s (and you’re) crediting them with.

If I understand this correctly, the “trip” is 2 sisters and their kids going away.

The SIL and you are not close enough to include you in their plans. It’s not a snub of your dd, if anything it might be more a case that the SIL didn’t want to invite you as it shifts the dynamic.

You MUST teach your dd that we can’t lol be invited to everything all the time, and that this trip isn’t at all a comment on her

I’d say she needs help with the bullying as it’s making her more sensitive than she should be.

And sending a text as stated on this thread is a bad idea in my opinion

It looks manipulative and a bit needy. It would create a problem that possibly isn’t even there. Nothing would inspire me to include anyone LESS than getting a text like that.

It’s not personal against dd, probably not even personal against anyone, use CBT thinking to help dd reassure herself that she’s good enough, that this wasn’t about her and that it’s ok for others to do things that she’s not doing.

I agree with all the posts saying you need to teach your dd to manage her expectations better. She's not going to be invited to everything all the time. Maybe they thought you couldn't afford it, as your dh said and it's an expensive trip potentially. I wouldn't text the sil or make it an issue, clearly they don't want to have a close relationship with you so just leave them to it.

I wouldn't talk about your D so much in the message.

I'd say that I have a feeling that I may have done something to upset you and H is not saying what.

Please could you tell me what has happened so I can rectify it.

Like you said your D and the trip is just the straw it's been happening in other ways. You need to tackle that.

Op so sorry you’re going through this and I understand the need to know what’s happening for your dd - I would be the same.

However I think the overriding issue is your dh not supporting you or more vitally his dd. She must sense that he knows something and that will exacerbate her feelings of abandonment and anxiety.

Your dh MUST. tell you what he knows. Has HE done something very bad that his brothers know about? Has he borrowed/ stolen money from family?

Yes your sil have been either deliberately or unintentionally unkind but inmho what your dh, the father of your dd is doing is far far worse.

Ignore the sil know unless they talk to you but tell your dh in a VERY serious manner YOU MUST KNOW.

I'm not sure why OP's DH is getting such a hard time. It seems that OP's DD has always been included in the past regardless of OP not having much of a relationship with the in-laws. If the DD is now being excluded then it's probably more to do with the DD. Maybe the cousins are no longer interested in maintaining a relationship with her/no longer have anything in common. Maybe she's just hard work to be around. OP's DH is much more likely to be avoiding telling OP that his family just don't like spending time being around their DD than covering up wrongdoing of his own.

You and your DD may be better off not getting to the bottom of this OP.

Of course you have their numbers. You created a group chat and text after MIL visits.

Sorry my mistake. You meant you don’t have the neices’ numbers. You can still go through the mums. They would go through you for DD wouldn’t they.

And why wouldn’t your DD want you to do this? She wanted them to invite her through you so this would be the same thing.

Agree your DH is failing your DD here - he needs to find out and/or tell you what's going on.

I think this is one of those occasions where a text was the right call: chances are they are upset with you and you have nothing to lose.

It's always easier for someone to give cold hard truth by text rather than when caught on back foot on phone.

People drift apart

I get fed up always being the one to invite people to things so give up after a while and concentrate on the people who want to build a relationship and invite my family to things.

I know you said you invited everyone to a housewarming but it didn’t seem like you set a date and invited people (other than just the inlaws)

Agree you need to speak to your DH.

Perhaps arrange some thing with your DD and a friend of hers to give your DD something positive to focus on - or do a mother daughter day / weekend - you know what she likes

If you want to build on the relationship between the girls-which doesn’t appear to be happening via the girls themselves-you need to invite them round.

By the sounds of it though, they have had enough of always being the ones to organise things. You need to set a good role model for her so she sees sometimes the aunts organising stuff and inviting her (sounds like this has been happening for years?) and sometimes mum does it for us too.

To be honest though, my kids are the same ages as the ones we are talking about and I don’t think I’ve organised one thing for any of them this holiday (except our actual holiday)-they’ve organised it between themselves.

If your daughter isn’t chatting to these girls about everything and nothing constantly on Instagram (or whatever), are they actually that close? If they’re not, it makes sense they want a holiday with people who are close.

It’s not up to the aunts to make your DD feel better-they probably have no idea what’s going on because you don’t really see them.

You need to be positive and proactive with her. Not, ‘oh my goodness, I can’t believe they’ve left you out!’ but ‘oh sweetie, I can see you’re sad, but you can’t expect an invite to everything. What shall we do together?’

I agree with fedup21. CorkNight, you really do need to be positive and proactive with your DD.

Otherwise, your DD's life is going to be full of disappointments - not everyone is going to invite her to everything every single time (especially when there isn't any real reciprocation). Treating every disappointment as a major drama - "my DD has been EXCLUDED! I will CONFRONT my SILs" - is going to be very damaging to your DD's mental health.

Be positive and be proactive with your DD. Work on her resilience.

You said:
* But things have been strange with DH’s family for a while now. We moved in June and I made a groupchat of all the siblings (DH doesn’t bother with Facebook) and said “Who would be up for a house warming on X weekend?”. Only of the SIL’s replied and said “If we have nothing else on we’ll come x.” Needless to say housewarming never happened. On weekend me and DD were shopping in the city and DH rang to say a BIL had popped round. I said “Oh we’ll come home then and say hi.” and then DH said “Oh well he’s going in a minute.”. Soon after that some of DH’s siblings went to a festival and we weren’t invited*

None of these things are particularly hostile in any way and I think you are reading way too much into things. The housewarming: you didn’t actually invite anybody. Sure, it would have been good manners for them to reply if the suggested date suited or not, but life happens and we don’t always reply as we might to the myriad of messages we get every day. For all you know, (esp the person who did reply!) they are all feeling like you dangled a party in front of them and it never materialized, so they could see you as in the wrong.

The BIL visit. I see nothing wrong in that. He popped round and wasn’t planning on staying for much longer and didn’t want to inconvenience you. That is not a slight, at least not how you tell it.

The festival. Some siblings invited - so presumably not all. And it’s a festival, you don’t need an invitation. If you want to go, buy a ticket and go.

Of course it’s awful that your daughter is upset and of course you want to do everything to make it right. But I agree with those who say you aren’t role-modeling resilience for her. There are multiple perfectly legitimate reasons they made the arrangements they did. Presumably if it was a dastardly secret plan to exclude your daughter, they wouldn’t have posted photos of it at all. You seem to be looking for the worst possible explanation in everything they do. Not all cousins were invited on the trip, and it’s not like a house party where one more makes no difference - it’s a lot of responsibility taking an extra teenager abroad and maybe the felt at their limits with the extra guests they had. It doesn’t have to be a crisis unless you make it one.

I’d suggest following some of the advice on here. Take a deep breath, in a week or two, invite the cousins round. Life is easier if you don’t assume nefarious motives from everyone.

Yes... you sound incredibly soggy, OP. You seem to expect everyone to include you and DD in everything, but don’t have clear expectations when you describe your interactions with family. You are so fluffy when you give or receive information. Could you not try and be more direct? Might save a world of pain in both directions. People find “Interpretation” exhausting and unnecessary, especially when they have known people for years.

Maybe he's dodging the question cos they invited her via him and he said no (due to expenses)?

I feel like that message is way over dramatic and awkward, I wouldn't send it. I would also not fill your daughter's head with the injustice of it as that's not going to help.

Start saving for your own trip!

If you must, just say something to the aunts when they get back that dd felt a bit left out / would love to be included in the next trip. But avoiding all the OTT emotional language

You can’t guilt trip the aunties into having to take your kids on holiday. If they want to do it, they will-it’s their holiday, their choice.

If you don’t reciprocate, it’s entirely their right to take who they want.

I have nothing to do with my sisters kids and no one has ever had a problem. Were not close so I assume that is normal so a bit different.

I wouldn't have a go, as some people just cant handle kids and you need to respect that. Just as she would probably expect that of you. But if its not close then just leave it, its not worth causing trouble over. seriously it isn't :D

I too wonder why your DH is being 'blamed' by many posters for this situation?

From what you have said, he doesn't seem too bothered about keeping close contact with his siblings - and you don't appear to like them very much either. Just because people are siblings doesn't automatically mean they will be close, or even like each other.

Why not back off and respect the level of contact he wants with his siblings and their families and focus your time and attention on building relationships with people you want to spend time with, your DD will benefit from those hugely if you give her the chance to.

From what you have said, he doesn't seem too bothered about keeping close contact with his siblings - and you don't appear to like them very much either. Just because people are siblings doesn't automatically mean they will be close, or even like each other.

This.

And if you’re not close to relatives, you tend not to take them on holiday with you.

Well if nothing else that text will have killed off any chance she has of being invited in the future!

Oh it’s really sad.

Seems like there is an issuer with your DH and his sisters and you don’t know about it. I would keep shaking the tree there with him and see what he says. I would press him.

Does your DD have a passport, OP?

So, DH has spoken. We had been struggling with money to do the house move and borrowed £2000 off MIL with BIL's (who sorts her money) permission for removal van etc. He's been paying it back in installments. We borrowed from MIL years ago before she got ill when we were really struggling and paid it back over 2 years. After that I told DH we can't do that again and he agreed.

DH has been very stressed about money so I think borrowed the £2000 as a last resort and was embarrased about it. So he doesn't think it's anything to do with DD but they just don't want to take her away knowing he's still paying back MIL and we are skint. I was genuinely unaware but suspected he'd borrowed off someone. The whole family knew he hadn't told me.

I see I overreacted quite a lot but think the lesson that has been learnt here is we need to communicate more. And I am going to look into getting a part time job.

Sorry second paragraph wasn't clear, he borrowed the £2000 of MIL and I was unaware.

You suspect he borrowed 2k and didnt bother to find out who it was off?

You did know. You just didnt ask so you could say you didnt know.

You should not have sent any messages while they were away.

And really, saying you would have found the money for a trip to Paris, while knowing or at least suspecting he had borrowed money that he hadnt paid back, is really poor planning.