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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to end a friendship over this

129 replies

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 15:29

Really not sure what to do here. I've name changed as details could be outing.
I've been best friends with Lisa (not her real name) for 30 years. There was a period of around 10 years when we didn't see each other, but stayed in email contact, as she moved a long distance away but she is back now, and over the last two years my DH and I have seen Lisa and her DH Gary regularly. All fine and dandy, and I get on very well with Lisa, and our DHs have really hit it off.
The issue is Lisa and Gary's son, Damien (not his real name). He is 12. My children are DS10 and DD13. Every time we see them Damien goes out of his way to ruin the occasion. He is rude, obnoxious, unpleasant and difficult. He is not diagnosed with anything, nor has this ever been considered to my knowledge, and all that Lisa and Gary do is make excuses. I would be completely understanding and tolerant if the behaviour was due to a special need, but as far as I can tell he is fine at school and the bad behaviour is a choice. Some examples:

  • We all had tickets to an event that we were walking to. Due to Damien keep running off in the opposite direction, hiding up alleyways, sitting down and refusing to move, we all missed it.
  • We went to a theme park. Each time we'd queued up for a ride, Damien would change his mind at the last minute and refuse to get on. As we all got off, he'd announce he was going to do it now and stand at the back of up to a 90 minute queue and refuse to move.
  • Day out at National Trust. Damien disappeared right at the start and we all spent the next hour plus in really high temperatures looking for him, only to find him over a mile from where we'd last seen him, playing on his mobile phone (which he hadn't answered).
  • Round to our house for a BBQ. I'd specifically bought foods he likes to avoid issues. He arrives and refuses to talk to anyone. Immediately he said to Lisa stood next to me, "there's nothing to do here, it's boring. Take me home. I want to go home." Lisa twittered that he was rude and rolled her eyes as if to say, what can you do. He then refused to eat a single thing. He repeatedly asked to go home. He refused to join in a game that my DC had that they were keen to play. Fair enough. But the next day Lisa tells me she has bought it for him (£150!!) as he liked it so much.
  • The last time we saw him he hurt my DS with a martial art move, and refused to release DS from a lock despite my DS begging. DD intervened and told us (we were in another room).
Lisa does not deal with this at all. She'll make excuses, such as he's tired, was in the middle of an on-line game and annoyed that he had to come out, that he's self conscious, that he's always like this (!!) and so on. Gary does a bit better, but makes wild threats like Damien and he'll go and sit in the car, or Damien won't have his iPad or phone rest of the week, Damien can't have friends round, but none of it is ever carried through as far as I know. I've asked Lisa if it's just us, and she just laughs and says no, he's always like this and reels off other 'amusing' examples. She says it's hard because he loves being on his computer and they have problems if they try to get him to go out anywhere. No kidding. I know IWBU to tell them how to parent. If he was mine, I would take away iPads, phones, etc and stick to it, for ever increasing periods. I would not watch him be rude to people's faces, and let him ruin all activities, and make excuses, without consequences. But he's not mine. The easy answer is to walk away, but I genuinely like Lisa and Gary in every way other than this. Obviously I can't trust Damien with my DS alone, and must keep an eye on that. To be fair, the rest of the time, Damien and my DC play fine, and they do like him, but probably for at least a third to a half of any visit he is being rude and obnoxious. Lisa will not take kindly to any conversation I fear and is quite defensive by nature. Both Lisa & Gary are highly educated and informed - she is a teacher and Gary is a deputy Head! I feel if there was a diagnosis to be had, they'd be onto it, but Lisa says that Damien is doing great at school, which leads me to think the behaviour is a choice which they are not dealing with. We have two holidays provisionally arranged with them next year. Damien's behaviour is getting worse, and every time we are with them I am finding I enjoy it less and less, and it's becoming a treading on eggshells ordeal. I could challenge Damien when he is rude to me, and ask if he realises how rude he is, but even that I think would probably be too much for Lisa & Gary. Any ideas as to how to improve this situation gratefully received. Or is it, as I am starting to think, impossible to get past? As we live a good hour apart seeing Lisa on her own is not easy, and she expects Damien to always be included. She works school hours and has Damien the rest of the time. We tend to have friends with children similar ages these days which suits us (usually). I think I know the answer but would love to hear if anyone has managed to survive a situation like this with friendship intact?
OP posts:
Pipandmum · 07/08/2019 15:35

Not sure what you can do but I definitely think you shouldn’t go on holiday with them if just going to a theme park or having a bbq is ruined.
I think you have to have a frank conversation with them but I don’t see that ending well. Sorry I have nothing better to add.

IAskTooManyQuestions · 07/08/2019 15:38

We have two holidays provisionally arranged with them next year

^^ this would not be happening .

He's 12, he runs off - you all go looking for him? Why ? ditto every example - why are you all looking for him? give Lisa the tickets, and your family goes to the event, Lisa can look for her son - 'catch us up later'. Rod for your own back.

Why did you all get off the ride? Why did you deprive your children?

National Trust - why are you all looking for him?

TBH with you, Im not getting past actively looking for NT 12yo that has a mobile phone.

msmith501 · 07/08/2019 15:41

No advice except your friends are important to you and maybe they appreciate your quite support. I speak as someone of 54 and have seen friends dissipate over the years for all sorts of small (in hindsight) reasons and it's all too easy to make big things out of small issues. I'd hand in there although the holidays with them seems hard work - maybe chat to them properly?

TeenTimesTwo · 07/08/2019 15:42

Meet up just the 2 of you.

Do events where you can split if he misbehaves.

Don't go on holiday together.

Summerwellunderway · 07/08/2019 15:43

Back away.
Arrange adult only meet ups.
Your poor dc, stop subjecting them to this awful family! Enablers aren't nice people either!

Aridane · 07/08/2019 15:44

Remain friends but don’t go on days out with the hildren

helpmee · 07/08/2019 15:44

Your friend is very lazy. Lazy parenting that is. My friends son was like this, he used to be very violent with my children, one time he jumped on DDs back, held onto her neck to hold himself up and she passed out. My DS took my DD downstairs in his arms (she was unconscious) and even then, all my friend and her DH did to tell her son off was 'oh dear, dont do that again please' ... i was fuming!!!!! He could have killed my child!!
This continued for years and years, they were scared of punishing their child as they didnt want to have to deal with the agg they would get back. I kept in contact with my friend but didnt see her much due to her son, she would get upset and couldnt understand why but, for my own childs safety and my sanity, i stayed away. Luckily now her son is 19, he has calmed down a LOT, i think college sorted him out a majorly. He is actually quite a nice boy now, a little bit odd and a little temper but hes nice enough. I now spend more time with my friend alone as he is older and we are back to being close again.

thecatinthetwat · 07/08/2019 15:44

Firstly, if he doesn’t want to go on the ride or runs off on way to the event - you carry on as you were. You’ve got to take your kids on the ride, to the event etc. Just smile and say ah well. I say this as someone who learnt this the hard way.

Secondly, if his behaviour is affecting you or your children then you step in. Damien stop that. You’re hurting ds. Then remind him, you must stop when people ask you to. Or whatever it is. This is so hard at first, but believe me, when you get the hang of it. It’s bloody marvellous. Just be firm but not harsh.

Teachermaths · 07/08/2019 15:46

The ticket thing I'd have walked off.

Don't go on holiday with them.

Meet the adults, if they ask, explain.

SnuggyBuggy · 07/08/2019 15:46

Why do you all have to keep changing your plans to suit Damien? Why didn't you and your kids just go to the event or on the rides without him?

I wouldn't go on holiday with them unless you are prepared to sack them off when he plays up. Why should your kids miss out?

flumposie · 07/08/2019 15:47

If you are considering ending the friendship then you have nothing to lose by being honest with them about your reservations over holiday plans. I would not be enabling his bad behaviour in the future. Let them search for him etc whilst you get on with planned events. Sounds like he feeds off of the attention.

thecatinthetwat · 07/08/2019 15:47

Your poor dc, stop subjecting them to this awful family!

Oh I totally agree with this though. If you can’t get the situation sorter soon ish so that your dc aren’t negatively impacted, then you absolutely should stop seeing this family.

Booboooo · 07/08/2019 15:48

Theres no way me and my kids would get out of the line cuz that brat did. Ejy did you do that?? Also scrap the holidays

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 07/08/2019 15:49

For the love of god dont go on holiday with them! Why would you put yourself through that!? Suggest you just meet yo adults only as well. I know it tricky but it sounds awful. I'm sure there are ways you can be more tactful than telling them their son is a brat. But it wont be the first time it has been said to them. Also if you do have to meet up with them all together then dont pander to him. Why on earth did you all miss the concert? Given he has form for disappearing on purpose to ruin events, just say you have no doubt he will turn up soon and go. Same with the national trust. If you are not going to say anything about the awful behaviour at least ignore it instead of pandering to it and ruining your own kids days for nothing

OpheliaTodd · 07/08/2019 15:50

Omg. What a brat! I’d do as others suggest.

ReanimatedSGB · 07/08/2019 15:51

Agree with PP, you don't all have to pander to this boy. He's his parents' problem, not your DCs' and there is no reason they -or you and your H - should miss out because he's acting up. If you can't be firm with your friends about their need to control their DS, you can be firm but polite about the fact that you are your DC are going to go to the event/go on the ride/ enjoy the day and will see them later.

sweetiepie1979 · 07/08/2019 15:53

Omg do not go on holiday with these people! Back away! If you want to keep in touch just do adult things don’t allow the children to mix you already say you do t trust Damien with your son so holidaying with them just sounds stressful. They are either afraid to parent him or that’s their style but I wouldn’t be around it he sounds like a little shit!

Anyonebut · 07/08/2019 15:53

As a pp has said, I don't understand why you are letting him ruin your kids activities. After the first time I would just let his parents dead with him (or not) and continue the activities with my own kids.
So, if he gets to the front of the queue and then doesn't want to get on the ride, you say "ok, see you when we're done". Same when he run on the opposite direction, you tell his parents you'll go ahead and they can meet you at the show once they talk to him, and so on.

saraclara · 07/08/2019 15:54

Yep. When these incidents happen, the two families should split up. He's not your responsibility, and your kids shouldn't suffer for his antics. You go ahead, your friends catch up when they've found him.

But honestly, I don't think I'd be going on holiday with them.

Reallybadidea · 07/08/2019 15:54

Well I wouldn't go on holiday with them, but other than that I'd keep the friendship going if you like them otherwise. Within a year or two he'll probably refuse to come with them anyway and they obviously aren't going to make him, so you'll be able to have a nice time.

And I'd be curious to see how he turns out

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 15:55

Sorry Iasktoomanyquestions we don't all get off the ride, I meant we get off after we've been on it. We only looked for him because having phoned him it was decided he probably didn't have his phone with him. It's also only been the case that we all look for him if we are at a place that we know and they don't. With the tickets - we were in our locality, not theirs, so we didn't feel we could abandon.
You're right though everyone, we are concluding the holiday won't happen so I will have to tell them that and why (any suggestions how to word it?). We're thinking we'll meet up once or twice more and try doing our own thing when he tries to ruin it, but ultimately we will probably have to back away.

OP posts:
Andahelterskelterroundmylittle · 07/08/2019 15:55

This is a deeply engrained parenting issue. You say you that you can neither speak to this boy or his parents- so there it is! Nothing to be done directly..
Only thing you can control is your own behaviour and responses.
1.FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T GO ON HOLIDAY

  1. As PP said, stop engaging in the same merry dance as his parents by searching for him , using your time etc
  2. If you want to continue friendship then I would treat this using negative reinforcement. I'd withdraw me and my family from him immediately. Go home , send them off or leave/cancel .PA or not they'd soon twig on
boosterrooster · 07/08/2019 15:55

Be a shame to lose a friendship of 30 years just because of the child.

If he's playing up you don't all have to get off the theme park ride/ miss the event etc. just say sorry Lisa, I'm going ahead with the kids catch you later. Same for holidays, don't eat out with them, meet them later. Don't sit near them on the plane (if taking a plane!) etc etc.

If she or her DH have an issue just say sorry, we aren't missing out just because Damien is acting like a little dick.

And tell your DC they don't have to play with him if they don't want. Again if Lisa asks just tell her that clearly they don't get along, no need to force them to play together

Funghi · 07/08/2019 15:56

I don’t understand how a 12 year old is dictating the lives of four adults.

If he doesn’t eat, leave him hungry. If he’s running off and you’re at risk of missing something, walk on ahead and leave his parents to deal with him. If he wants to get out of a queue, he can and you can stay in it.

What am I missing?

Bluntness100 · 07/08/2019 15:56

Clearly something is very wrong here. Either they don't want to share it with you, don't want to accept it so don't want to deal with it, or something at home is causing his behaviour and that's why they are doing nothing.

Either way, any parent knows this isn't acceptable,and as they are both teachers they too know it.

So something isn't being shared with you, but either that's a very troubled child or he's one with additional needs.

You need to ask yourself if you can cope with a holiday as it's an extend period with little respite.

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