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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to end a friendship over this

129 replies

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 15:29

Really not sure what to do here. I've name changed as details could be outing.
I've been best friends with Lisa (not her real name) for 30 years. There was a period of around 10 years when we didn't see each other, but stayed in email contact, as she moved a long distance away but she is back now, and over the last two years my DH and I have seen Lisa and her DH Gary regularly. All fine and dandy, and I get on very well with Lisa, and our DHs have really hit it off.
The issue is Lisa and Gary's son, Damien (not his real name). He is 12. My children are DS10 and DD13. Every time we see them Damien goes out of his way to ruin the occasion. He is rude, obnoxious, unpleasant and difficult. He is not diagnosed with anything, nor has this ever been considered to my knowledge, and all that Lisa and Gary do is make excuses. I would be completely understanding and tolerant if the behaviour was due to a special need, but as far as I can tell he is fine at school and the bad behaviour is a choice. Some examples:

  • We all had tickets to an event that we were walking to. Due to Damien keep running off in the opposite direction, hiding up alleyways, sitting down and refusing to move, we all missed it.
  • We went to a theme park. Each time we'd queued up for a ride, Damien would change his mind at the last minute and refuse to get on. As we all got off, he'd announce he was going to do it now and stand at the back of up to a 90 minute queue and refuse to move.
  • Day out at National Trust. Damien disappeared right at the start and we all spent the next hour plus in really high temperatures looking for him, only to find him over a mile from where we'd last seen him, playing on his mobile phone (which he hadn't answered).
  • Round to our house for a BBQ. I'd specifically bought foods he likes to avoid issues. He arrives and refuses to talk to anyone. Immediately he said to Lisa stood next to me, "there's nothing to do here, it's boring. Take me home. I want to go home." Lisa twittered that he was rude and rolled her eyes as if to say, what can you do. He then refused to eat a single thing. He repeatedly asked to go home. He refused to join in a game that my DC had that they were keen to play. Fair enough. But the next day Lisa tells me she has bought it for him (£150!!) as he liked it so much.
  • The last time we saw him he hurt my DS with a martial art move, and refused to release DS from a lock despite my DS begging. DD intervened and told us (we were in another room).
Lisa does not deal with this at all. She'll make excuses, such as he's tired, was in the middle of an on-line game and annoyed that he had to come out, that he's self conscious, that he's always like this (!!) and so on. Gary does a bit better, but makes wild threats like Damien and he'll go and sit in the car, or Damien won't have his iPad or phone rest of the week, Damien can't have friends round, but none of it is ever carried through as far as I know. I've asked Lisa if it's just us, and she just laughs and says no, he's always like this and reels off other 'amusing' examples. She says it's hard because he loves being on his computer and they have problems if they try to get him to go out anywhere. No kidding. I know IWBU to tell them how to parent. If he was mine, I would take away iPads, phones, etc and stick to it, for ever increasing periods. I would not watch him be rude to people's faces, and let him ruin all activities, and make excuses, without consequences. But he's not mine. The easy answer is to walk away, but I genuinely like Lisa and Gary in every way other than this. Obviously I can't trust Damien with my DS alone, and must keep an eye on that. To be fair, the rest of the time, Damien and my DC play fine, and they do like him, but probably for at least a third to a half of any visit he is being rude and obnoxious. Lisa will not take kindly to any conversation I fear and is quite defensive by nature. Both Lisa & Gary are highly educated and informed - she is a teacher and Gary is a deputy Head! I feel if there was a diagnosis to be had, they'd be onto it, but Lisa says that Damien is doing great at school, which leads me to think the behaviour is a choice which they are not dealing with. We have two holidays provisionally arranged with them next year. Damien's behaviour is getting worse, and every time we are with them I am finding I enjoy it less and less, and it's becoming a treading on eggshells ordeal. I could challenge Damien when he is rude to me, and ask if he realises how rude he is, but even that I think would probably be too much for Lisa & Gary. Any ideas as to how to improve this situation gratefully received. Or is it, as I am starting to think, impossible to get past? As we live a good hour apart seeing Lisa on her own is not easy, and she expects Damien to always be included. She works school hours and has Damien the rest of the time. We tend to have friends with children similar ages these days which suits us (usually). I think I know the answer but would love to hear if anyone has managed to survive a situation like this with friendship intact?
OP posts:
user1471449295 · 07/08/2019 17:37

Back away from them. Sounds like a nightmare. I definitely wouldn’t be going on holiday with them either.

TheGreysAreComing · 07/08/2019 17:38

If you said the kids are really pushing for a family only holiday this year I'm sure she'd be fine with that. Kids make the rule and all.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 17:41

Oh and yes to the poster with the pic of Damien! That's him GrinGrinGrin

OP posts:
nancyclancy123 · 07/08/2019 17:42

My dd aged 8 does have additional needs, we do have to make a lot of adjustments and plan everything but she’s also given clear, consistent boundaries.

They are teachers and should really know better!!

endofthelinefinally · 07/08/2019 17:47

No holidays, no time in each other's homes.
Meet ups in free public places.
If Damien runs off, his parents look for him, you and your family go and do something else.
You are enabling theirs, and his, behaviour.
Also, you are letting your own DC down very badly and they will not forget this.

yikesanddang · 07/08/2019 17:55

He's 12, he runs off - you all go looking for him? Why ? ditto every example - why are you all looking for him? give Lisa the tickets, and your family goes to the event, Lisa can look for her son - 'catch us up later'. Rod for your own back.

Why did you all get off the ride? Why did you deprive your children?

National Trust - why are you all looking for him?

TBH with you, Im not getting past actively looking for NT 12yo that has a mobile phone.

This

Ethicalbluey45 · 07/08/2019 17:59

I think friendships are hard enough and adding children to the mix can be challenging but have you tried couples time without the children and definitely no holidays together that way you deal with your families separately and remember these kids are going to grow older and start doing their own things and you will still have your long friendship so give up on your friendship remember you were friends before the kids came along and aunty Lisa and uncle Gary will come useful mediators one day when your little angels don't communicate with you trust me that time will come

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 18:00

My DC actually like him - except since the most recent incident involving the martial art move which has put them off a bit. I've chatted to both DC today about the situation and that we're not prepared to tolerate Damien's behaviour. They know it's bad behaviour, no question there, but we've got other families we see where it's not at all like this so they understand the issue. DS is quite attached to Damien but he gets attached to everyone so he'll get over if.

OP posts:
HeadintheiClouds · 07/08/2019 18:02

Well, what would you prefer; holidaying with this hellion again, or have his parents “react badly” to hearing that you’re not prepared to put up with his ridiculous antics again? I know what I’d choose.
What I don’t really get (maybe I’m just not as nice as you) is how watching this pair of limp lettuces fail at parenting their son hasn’t made you view them differently? Do you not respect them even slightly less, having watched that carry on??

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 18:05

Yes I do Head, it's really affecting how I view them. 6 months ago it wasn't this bad but it's getting worse so it is affecting how I view them. Limp
Lettuces 😁

OP posts:
Herocomplex · 07/08/2019 18:06

That child sounds very angry to me.

jasmine1971 · 07/08/2019 18:06

HeadintheiClouds I'm totally with you on that. I lost all respect for my lifelong best friend and now never see her (not seen her for 6 years) after I spent the day with her and her DS. We had gone to a market to get food for lunch - he spat at her, took things off several market stalls and threw them to the ground. He was 9 at the time. She just took it all. She blamed it on his Dad not being there. No way I could respect her again after that.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 18:12

Hero yes definitely anger there at times.

OP posts:
DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 07/08/2019 18:14

If your eldest is 13 it is possible you could be looking at only another 5 summer holidays with all of your family being on holiday together can you afford to let Damian the King of Anarchy ruin one of these precious times for you.
I wouldn't give excuses or try to fob Liza off either, She knows exactly what he is like. she will see straight through it.. tell her honestly as another pp suggested that your children just want a small family holiday this year. Its true enough.
It's surprising that Liza is happy to let everyone tag along after him, etc.. and not just telling you all to go ahead. Is she upset by this behaviour? It is worth supporting her instead by listening without advice?
If at the same time you have some suggestions for things the adults can do without the kids, that should help the friendship continue. Or perhaps you could plan an outing that is less easy to disrupt? Or agree with Liza tactfully in advance that you will press ahead with the activity (let them sort him out) if Damien wants to take things at his own pace (hem hem)
It might be that young Damo is just going through a phase, but he's not your child so you and your DC should not have to go through it too.

FairyBatman · 07/08/2019 18:38

It sounds to me like he is desperate for attention and boundaries that perhaps his parents aren’t giving him.

I would call him out firmly but nicely on any rudeness or unacceptable behaviour in your home and I would ignore the behaviour bad enough to try and dictate your days out. As others have said if he runs off leave his parents to deal with him and arrange to meet them in a couple of hours.

I’d bet that when he stops getting the reaction and attention from all of you the behaviour will calm right down.

Absolutely don’t go on holiday unless things improve

MauritiusNext · 07/08/2019 18:40

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Motoko · 07/08/2019 18:43

You were mad to even consider a holiday with these people.

The answer is quite simple, you tell them that you've decided/your children have requested a family holiday.

BazaarMum · 07/08/2019 18:46

We have a ‘Damien’ in the extended family, down to the marshal arts moves. I totally understand how you feel and the dilemma involved. We have backed off a great deal, but due to distances if we see them it has to be at least a whole day.

I have actually spoken to the child directly before about his behaviour. The parents were a bit put out, but it didn’t damage the relationship long term. It also didn’t help! And was dismissed and excused by one parent while the other was just embarrassed.

Regarding the holiday, I’d say “I’m really sorry Lisa, but we’ve had to rethink the holiday. Damien doesn’t seem to enjoy his time with us very much, we have our routines for this annual holiday and having seen how difficult Damien sometimes finds it to go along with a plan when he has another idea in mind, it wouldn’t be much fun for him. I think it’s better if we skip this one.”

I really think you have to be honest, if kindly. She might be pissed off but at least it opens the door to a discussion. The friendship is dead anyway if she doesn’t address the issue, so why not give her the chance.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 20:32

Thanks BazaarMum I love that wording, will be using that.

OP posts:
Beesandcheese · 07/08/2019 20:40

No to a holiday. Arrange some grown up only get togethers for a couple of years until he's old enough to not want to spend time with his parent''s friends?
But stop letting him ruin your time with your kids. As suggested leave them to it, say "text us" at events where he's shot off and carry on. If he's rude then start shooing them home.

BazaarMum · 08/08/2019 08:08

Ilovepeanuts I hope it goes well, come back and update how she responds. Not easy!

thecatsarecrazy · 08/08/2019 08:33

12? He sounds like a toddler. My 10 year old can be an arsehole sometimes but sounds a cherub compared to him

SnuggyBuggy · 08/08/2019 08:54

Hope your friend takes it ok

MyOtherProfile · 08/08/2019 08:59

Prime example of how you don't have to be friends with an entire family just because the mum is your friend. Stick to evenings in the pub just adults or coffee with Lisa when the kids aren't around.

Nabana · 08/08/2019 09:09

Obviously he was never spanked growing up. What a brat.