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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to end a friendship over this

129 replies

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 15:29

Really not sure what to do here. I've name changed as details could be outing.
I've been best friends with Lisa (not her real name) for 30 years. There was a period of around 10 years when we didn't see each other, but stayed in email contact, as she moved a long distance away but she is back now, and over the last two years my DH and I have seen Lisa and her DH Gary regularly. All fine and dandy, and I get on very well with Lisa, and our DHs have really hit it off.
The issue is Lisa and Gary's son, Damien (not his real name). He is 12. My children are DS10 and DD13. Every time we see them Damien goes out of his way to ruin the occasion. He is rude, obnoxious, unpleasant and difficult. He is not diagnosed with anything, nor has this ever been considered to my knowledge, and all that Lisa and Gary do is make excuses. I would be completely understanding and tolerant if the behaviour was due to a special need, but as far as I can tell he is fine at school and the bad behaviour is a choice. Some examples:

  • We all had tickets to an event that we were walking to. Due to Damien keep running off in the opposite direction, hiding up alleyways, sitting down and refusing to move, we all missed it.
  • We went to a theme park. Each time we'd queued up for a ride, Damien would change his mind at the last minute and refuse to get on. As we all got off, he'd announce he was going to do it now and stand at the back of up to a 90 minute queue and refuse to move.
  • Day out at National Trust. Damien disappeared right at the start and we all spent the next hour plus in really high temperatures looking for him, only to find him over a mile from where we'd last seen him, playing on his mobile phone (which he hadn't answered).
  • Round to our house for a BBQ. I'd specifically bought foods he likes to avoid issues. He arrives and refuses to talk to anyone. Immediately he said to Lisa stood next to me, "there's nothing to do here, it's boring. Take me home. I want to go home." Lisa twittered that he was rude and rolled her eyes as if to say, what can you do. He then refused to eat a single thing. He repeatedly asked to go home. He refused to join in a game that my DC had that they were keen to play. Fair enough. But the next day Lisa tells me she has bought it for him (£150!!) as he liked it so much.
  • The last time we saw him he hurt my DS with a martial art move, and refused to release DS from a lock despite my DS begging. DD intervened and told us (we were in another room).
Lisa does not deal with this at all. She'll make excuses, such as he's tired, was in the middle of an on-line game and annoyed that he had to come out, that he's self conscious, that he's always like this (!!) and so on. Gary does a bit better, but makes wild threats like Damien and he'll go and sit in the car, or Damien won't have his iPad or phone rest of the week, Damien can't have friends round, but none of it is ever carried through as far as I know. I've asked Lisa if it's just us, and she just laughs and says no, he's always like this and reels off other 'amusing' examples. She says it's hard because he loves being on his computer and they have problems if they try to get him to go out anywhere. No kidding. I know IWBU to tell them how to parent. If he was mine, I would take away iPads, phones, etc and stick to it, for ever increasing periods. I would not watch him be rude to people's faces, and let him ruin all activities, and make excuses, without consequences. But he's not mine. The easy answer is to walk away, but I genuinely like Lisa and Gary in every way other than this. Obviously I can't trust Damien with my DS alone, and must keep an eye on that. To be fair, the rest of the time, Damien and my DC play fine, and they do like him, but probably for at least a third to a half of any visit he is being rude and obnoxious. Lisa will not take kindly to any conversation I fear and is quite defensive by nature. Both Lisa & Gary are highly educated and informed - she is a teacher and Gary is a deputy Head! I feel if there was a diagnosis to be had, they'd be onto it, but Lisa says that Damien is doing great at school, which leads me to think the behaviour is a choice which they are not dealing with. We have two holidays provisionally arranged with them next year. Damien's behaviour is getting worse, and every time we are with them I am finding I enjoy it less and less, and it's becoming a treading on eggshells ordeal. I could challenge Damien when he is rude to me, and ask if he realises how rude he is, but even that I think would probably be too much for Lisa & Gary. Any ideas as to how to improve this situation gratefully received. Or is it, as I am starting to think, impossible to get past? As we live a good hour apart seeing Lisa on her own is not easy, and she expects Damien to always be included. She works school hours and has Damien the rest of the time. We tend to have friends with children similar ages these days which suits us (usually). I think I know the answer but would love to hear if anyone has managed to survive a situation like this with friendship intact?
OP posts:
AmIRightOrAMeringue · 07/08/2019 16:00

Just say you dont think the holiday is a good idea as whenever you all get together damien seems to want to try and get away from you all, at the expense of everyone else having a good time so you dont think it's going to work with you being together all week. Or book somewhere nearby and meet up a couple of times instead

RedTideBlues · 07/08/2019 16:02

You are allowing Damien to bully you and your family into doing what he wants and when he wants. If you go on holiday with them you know that you and your children are not going to have any quality time. Damien is going to dictate everything.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 16:03

Thank you everyone, I like the suggestion about just withdrawing our company and carrying on the plan. Hard when Damien is missing in a forest that we know but his parents don't though.
To be clear, we didn't miss any rides - we only got off AFTER we'd been on, and that is when Damien announced he was going on each time.
We did miss out on the ticket event but it wasn't a concert and was v cheap, but still galling.

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Sewrainbow · 07/08/2019 16:03

Every time he plays up on a day out leave them to it. Shy should your kids get off a ride because he's changed his mind. I'm surprised you dc have not complained about this. If you don't want to confront them you have to manage them. Ie he runs off, you say we'll go on ahead and you meet us at x. He wants to leave a queue, you guys are staying and having the ride. He shouldn't control the day out. You shouldn't be looking for him in the NT situation he isn't a toddler that could come to harm so don't feel guilty. By going along with all these things you are not letting your friends know how it makes you feel, they o viously think you're fine with it when actually the friendship could be seriously affected if they don't deal with him.

I wouldn't do the holiday..

Crunchymum · 07/08/2019 16:04

You all missed an event because you were all looking for him?

Fuck. That. Shit.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 16:05

I totally agree Bluntness100 - I feel there's an additional need but I am thinking the parents are possibly resisting any labelling of it so just singing la la la to all the behaviour.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 07/08/2019 16:06

If you wish to maintain the friendship then don't tell them you're cancelling due to their son. That is something that will break a friendship irreparably.

Just say there is work commitments, or financial constraints, or something with the kids, anything, but just pull out and make some excuse up that won't make it irreversible.

Bottom line op is they know they have a problem with their son, they know his behaviour is not acceptable. They are teachers for God's sake. They know. The fact they don't discuss it with you doesn't mean they don't know. And experience may tell them that punishing him makes it worse.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 16:08

Yes Crunchymum we did. I feel ridiculous, but we felt they were in a locality they didn't know at all, and we did, and Lisa was visibly worried as Damien had no clue where he was and on that occasion no phone (though he had the phone at the NT place but we didn't know for sure).

OP posts:
Vibiano · 07/08/2019 16:08

Can't you just arrange to go out as adults, get a babysitter?

ddl1 · 07/08/2019 16:09

I don't think that you should necessarily end the friendship altogether, and I don't think that you should criticize their parenting unless asked, or say their son is a little bastard, even if he is! I would, however, say that right now your children and Damien don't seem to get on well, and that you'd rather meet as 'adults only' for the time being, and not combine it with playdates for the kids. And don't go on holiday with them! If she ends the friendship over this, well, a pity but up to her.

Teachermaths · 07/08/2019 16:09

"on reflection we can't go on holiday with you due to your ds behaviour towards our other children"

Bluntness100 · 07/08/2019 16:09

i feel there's an additional need but I am thinking the parents are possibly resisting any labelling of it

This is likely. They may even have tried for a diagnosis. Or they simply don't want one, and they may know that not dealing with the behaviour at the time is actually better because it can cause melt downs that are very much worse.

Pinkout · 07/08/2019 16:10

Sorry but the holidays would not be happening and I would be slowly weaning away from contacting them all together. Their son sounds like a spoiled and entitled little brat. He is 12 and definitely knows right from wrong, he knows not to run away like a toddler.

This is just far too much hassle for you, cut contact.

ddl1 · 07/08/2019 16:10

PS - As regards the holiday, I think it would be better to make an excuse, rather than say it's due to her son's behaviour. She may guess, but probably it would be too confrontational to tell her in so many words.

Skittlesandbeer · 07/08/2019 16:10

I’m guessing that whatever strategy you put in place now (and I definitely agree you should phase out catchups), it won’t be forever. The lad will change- whether for better or worse- and your kids will refuse to put up with his shenanigans as they grow up also.

Frankly, since you seem to spend 90% of your time together absorbed in the boy’s bad behaviour, will it really be such a wrench to withdraw? Who is having any fun? Cut your kids a break for the next (nominal) 3 years and catch up via Skype after his bedtime.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 16:11

Thanks Bluntness100 - I feel they must know too and they're just doing a good job of pretending otherwise. But we're def going on the holiday - we've been several times and they wanted to join us. It's them that won't be coming. We know the owners of the holiday place well. I'll just think of an excuse that they can't come.....

OP posts:
ChihuahuaMummy1 · 07/08/2019 16:12

No advice but Grin at that you've named him Damien,seems fitting.

Butterflyone1 · 07/08/2019 16:12

Clearly there's either underlying behavioural issues with Damien (brilliant name given btw) or Lisa and Gary are shit parents who pander to their DS every need and as a result have turned him into the monster that he is.

I would 100% say no to the holidays and I'd be frank and explain that their DS's behaviour is unacceptable and you can't put your children in these difficult positions again.

If you lose a friend over it then it's Lisa's fault.

HypatiaCade · 07/08/2019 16:15

Maybe something like 'with the children not really getting along we think it's best to not holiday together for a bit, until the situation sorts itself out'.

BesselVanDerKolk · 07/08/2019 16:15

He sounds very much like a kid with undiagnosed ASD/PDA to me.

TeenTimesTwo · 07/08/2019 16:15

How about 'Damien doesn't seem to enjoy himself very much at the moment when we are together, and my DC aren't enjoying it so much either. It's probably hormones, but we probably need to hit holidays and days out together on the head for now, but it would be great to see you without the kids in tow.'

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 16:15

Thank you everyone. It feel a big step to tell them we're not doing the holiday with them, but I can see it's necessary. It will be awful if we went with them as I love the place and would probably have a horrible time while he dominated everyone and relations got strained.
They treat Damien like an adult in many ways. He goes everywhere and they won't use babysitters (may well be a reason for that in hindsight).
We will just have to cool things for the foreseeable future.

OP posts:
Belfield · 07/08/2019 16:16

love the name Damien it would be even funnier if that was his real name. Don't go on holidays. see them less for the next four/five years. He will be older then and won't be part of the meetings. I wouldn't turn my back on a friendship because of the behavior of their child. Good friends are hard to come by, especially as you get older.

YouTheCat · 07/08/2019 16:16

I'd be semi-honest and say you don't think Damien would enjoy it. Or you could say you won't be spending any more time searching for the little bugger when he does a disappearing act.

I'd only ever plan stuff where it is possible to leave them to their own devices.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 16:16

I agree BesselVanDerKolk and ODD. It's not fair on him if that's the case.
I like the wording TeenTimesTwo

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