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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to end a friendship over this

129 replies

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 15:29

Really not sure what to do here. I've name changed as details could be outing.
I've been best friends with Lisa (not her real name) for 30 years. There was a period of around 10 years when we didn't see each other, but stayed in email contact, as she moved a long distance away but she is back now, and over the last two years my DH and I have seen Lisa and her DH Gary regularly. All fine and dandy, and I get on very well with Lisa, and our DHs have really hit it off.
The issue is Lisa and Gary's son, Damien (not his real name). He is 12. My children are DS10 and DD13. Every time we see them Damien goes out of his way to ruin the occasion. He is rude, obnoxious, unpleasant and difficult. He is not diagnosed with anything, nor has this ever been considered to my knowledge, and all that Lisa and Gary do is make excuses. I would be completely understanding and tolerant if the behaviour was due to a special need, but as far as I can tell he is fine at school and the bad behaviour is a choice. Some examples:

  • We all had tickets to an event that we were walking to. Due to Damien keep running off in the opposite direction, hiding up alleyways, sitting down and refusing to move, we all missed it.
  • We went to a theme park. Each time we'd queued up for a ride, Damien would change his mind at the last minute and refuse to get on. As we all got off, he'd announce he was going to do it now and stand at the back of up to a 90 minute queue and refuse to move.
  • Day out at National Trust. Damien disappeared right at the start and we all spent the next hour plus in really high temperatures looking for him, only to find him over a mile from where we'd last seen him, playing on his mobile phone (which he hadn't answered).
  • Round to our house for a BBQ. I'd specifically bought foods he likes to avoid issues. He arrives and refuses to talk to anyone. Immediately he said to Lisa stood next to me, "there's nothing to do here, it's boring. Take me home. I want to go home." Lisa twittered that he was rude and rolled her eyes as if to say, what can you do. He then refused to eat a single thing. He repeatedly asked to go home. He refused to join in a game that my DC had that they were keen to play. Fair enough. But the next day Lisa tells me she has bought it for him (£150!!) as he liked it so much.
  • The last time we saw him he hurt my DS with a martial art move, and refused to release DS from a lock despite my DS begging. DD intervened and told us (we were in another room).
Lisa does not deal with this at all. She'll make excuses, such as he's tired, was in the middle of an on-line game and annoyed that he had to come out, that he's self conscious, that he's always like this (!!) and so on. Gary does a bit better, but makes wild threats like Damien and he'll go and sit in the car, or Damien won't have his iPad or phone rest of the week, Damien can't have friends round, but none of it is ever carried through as far as I know. I've asked Lisa if it's just us, and she just laughs and says no, he's always like this and reels off other 'amusing' examples. She says it's hard because he loves being on his computer and they have problems if they try to get him to go out anywhere. No kidding. I know IWBU to tell them how to parent. If he was mine, I would take away iPads, phones, etc and stick to it, for ever increasing periods. I would not watch him be rude to people's faces, and let him ruin all activities, and make excuses, without consequences. But he's not mine. The easy answer is to walk away, but I genuinely like Lisa and Gary in every way other than this. Obviously I can't trust Damien with my DS alone, and must keep an eye on that. To be fair, the rest of the time, Damien and my DC play fine, and they do like him, but probably for at least a third to a half of any visit he is being rude and obnoxious. Lisa will not take kindly to any conversation I fear and is quite defensive by nature. Both Lisa & Gary are highly educated and informed - she is a teacher and Gary is a deputy Head! I feel if there was a diagnosis to be had, they'd be onto it, but Lisa says that Damien is doing great at school, which leads me to think the behaviour is a choice which they are not dealing with. We have two holidays provisionally arranged with them next year. Damien's behaviour is getting worse, and every time we are with them I am finding I enjoy it less and less, and it's becoming a treading on eggshells ordeal. I could challenge Damien when he is rude to me, and ask if he realises how rude he is, but even that I think would probably be too much for Lisa & Gary. Any ideas as to how to improve this situation gratefully received. Or is it, as I am starting to think, impossible to get past? As we live a good hour apart seeing Lisa on her own is not easy, and she expects Damien to always be included. She works school hours and has Damien the rest of the time. We tend to have friends with children similar ages these days which suits us (usually). I think I know the answer but would love to hear if anyone has managed to survive a situation like this with friendship intact?
OP posts:
IamWaggingBrenda · 07/08/2019 16:16

I’d arrange time with Lisa and her DH, and make it clear kids aren’t invited. I had a similar situation, although my DD and friend’s DD were about 4 and 5. If she pushes, I’d tell her it’s obvious Damian doesn’t enjoy being with us, or enjoy spending time with your DC. If she pushes, stand your ground. I did end up losing my friendship, though, as my friend kept asking why my DD didn’t want to spend time with her DD. Despite her telling me her DD ripped up my DDs pictures, tried to push her down the stairs, and she found them ‘playing’ in her DD’s room, with her DD sitting on my DD trying to choke her. Yes. But couldn’t understand why my DD didn’t want to come over. It ended with my lovely friend saying my DD was a “fucking liar”. Yup, that did it for me. Friendship over.

Fundays12 · 07/08/2019 16:17

Stop looking for him and do not allow him to dictate you all that your not going on rides. Most definitely do not go on holiday with them and avoid meet ups with the kids your children don’t deserve this.

My son has autism and ADHD and very challenging behaviour but I would not allow any of this nonsense. He knows even at 7 that if he runs away he goes home, if he lines up for a ride he needs to go on it and I also never expect others to deal with his behaviour that’s me and his dads job.

AryaStarkWolf · 07/08/2019 16:17

I wouldn't end the friendship but I definitely wouldn't be going on holiday with them, more stress then it's worth

WhoKnewBeefStew · 07/08/2019 16:17

You either need to set some strong boundaries or withdraw

The queue issue - let him walk away, but you and your dc stay and go on the ride

The disappearing act - let his parents go and look for him

The rudeness - don't buy him special food, let him eat (or not) what's on offer

I'm afraid, that it's simply attention seeking behaviour if he's got no MH issues (I'm not saying he has or hasn't).

As for the holiday, I'm afraid that unless you are completely happy to carry on with the new boundaries in place and it won't make you feel uncomfortable right cause friction, then I'd not invite them. Holidays are too precious I'm afraid

Coronapop · 07/08/2019 16:19

It sounds as though he is just an attention seeking only child. From what you've said he is unlikely to change so the question is whether you can still tolerate seeing him, and if so how often. I think you need to be honest with Lisa if you do cut down visits/outings etc. As he gets older it might become easier to see Lisa on her own so I would not totally write off the friendship just yet.

ILovesPeanuts · 07/08/2019 16:20

Thank you all, popping out for a bit so will catch up later. Really liking being told that this has gone too far, I needed to hear it, as so reluctant to damage the friendship but can't carry on like this.
Just to say again, we never missed any rides - we got off AFTER we'd ridden and we did walk away when he joined the back of the queue.

OP posts:
mussolini9 · 07/08/2019 16:21

I could challenge Damien when he is rude to me, and ask if he realises how rude he is, but even that I think would probably be too much for Lisa & Gary.

But if you do not, then it is "too much" for you & your DC's.
There is a difference between telling another adult how to parent, which you are wisely reluctant to do, & calling out misbehaviour IN YOUR OWN HOME.

I would start by calmly pointing out each episode of rudeness that happens in your home. It will give you more information to work with once you see how he & his useless indulgent parents react.
It doesn't have to be a biggie, just mild things like "I made an effort to get the food you like so it would be good if you'd at least try some of it" or "that's a rude thing to say, I don't want to hear you talking like that in my house".

Obviously don't go on holiday with them! It would be an untrammelled nightmare. I cannot believe that 2 teachers are bringing their boy up like this. The theme park example about the rides proves he is doing it deliberately to get a rise. He is absolutely aware of who rules the roost & calls the shots, & it's not his parents. I'd actually find it hard to be friends with parents like this, no matter how much I liked them before - too difficult to retain any respect for them.

mumwon · 07/08/2019 16:24

II have dc within spectrum what you are saying is this dc is manipulative & parents are inconsistent in their boundaries of his behaviour & how they deal with it. I don't see special needs here - I see a need for parents to go on parenting course or to get together with how they deal with his behaviour - the worst parenting I have ever seen - & I don't go about judging parents! - was a social worker & child psychologist! - too full of theories & inconsistent & of course judging everybody else (teeth grinding!)

ScreamingValenta · 07/08/2019 16:24

I don't understand why your family wouldn't go ahead without Damien and his parents if he's dawdling so you'd miss an event, changing his mind about going on a ride, etc.

spam390 · 07/08/2019 16:27

If you've already committed to the holiday, can't you ask the owner to make sure you're not in the same section ? i don't know what kind of holiday it is, but couldn't you say ' while we're on hols I'm really looking forward to spending time alone with my DC as they've said they wanted time alone with us, so how about we meet up either once a day for a couple of hours or every second day ?

caballerino · 07/08/2019 16:30

Sometimes professionals can actually be the last to recognise issues or problems with their own children that they'd identify more or less immediately in a professional capacity with any other child.

mussolini9 · 07/08/2019 16:30

I see a need for parents to go on parenting course

Yes.
I also hope that Lisa & Gary wake up & put a tracker on Damien's phone.
Far more effective than playing silly buggers looking for him every time he decides to pull a day-ruining stunt.

Blanca87 · 07/08/2019 16:33

It sounds like permissive parenting on their part. Some of the behaviours you describe sound like this is the result of this approach.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 07/08/2019 16:35

I've recently had to set some boundaries with friends who have violent, difficult children. Basically, my kids' safety is my first priority, and if they can't control their kids, they're not going to be seeing each other, that's the sad conclusion I've come to. Tired of dealing with parents who don't set proper boundaries. I feel really sorry for the kids, actually - they need to know limits and that someone is looking out for them. Ugh.

zzzzzzzz12345 · 07/08/2019 16:35

Cancel holidays. Meet up only as adults, without the kids. Simple.

TatianaLarina · 07/08/2019 16:36

It’s impossible to know whether he has additional needs they’re not addressing or whether it’s just shit parenting.

I’ve encountered many children now who seem might be ASD but turns out they’re not they just have been given no boundaries.

Either way you can’t go on holiday with them.

If he’s 12 already you could distance yourself for a bit until he goes to uni etc. 6 years isn’t much in 30.

Disfordarkchocolate · 07/08/2019 16:37

Can I ask why you are planning holidays with them? Their child is not safe to be with your children, and he deliberately acts in a way that means your children don't enjoy days out.

For me, there is no way to continue this friendship unless you are prepared to say to these parents we cannot meet up while your son acts this way. And it sounds like they aren't parents who are going to respond well.

MauritiusNext · 07/08/2019 16:37

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Cheeseandwin5 · 07/08/2019 16:38

In your original Post, you said
We went to a theme park. Each time we'd queued up for a ride, Damien would change his mind at the last minute and refuse to get on. As we all got off, he'd announce he was going to do it now and stand at the back of up to a 90 minute queue and refuse to move.
and gave similar examples, when you were queried about it, you seem to have completely changed your tune.
Other peoples children can be annoying, but when you are tired of them you can just walk away. All these things you say you have suffered, was your choice- you could have walked away from and let his parents deal with.
If you dont want to see this family then don't, but I am unsure whether finding a way to blame them for it is that productive.

TatianaLarina · 07/08/2019 16:38

Also - he may be doing well academically, but I’d bet his behaviour is similar at school.

BlankTimes · 07/08/2019 16:39

I feel if there was a diagnosis to be had, they'd be onto it, but Lisa says that Damien is doing great at school, which leads me to think the behaviour is a choice which they are not dealing with

Teachers can be "blind" to any Additional Needs if a child is academically average or above.
There's something seriously wrong with Damien's behaviour, my guess is they see it but the don't want to admit their child needs support.

I agree with mussolini9 why on earth don't they have a tracker on Damien's phone? Preferably without telling him so he can't switch it off.

GhostRidersInDisguise · 07/08/2019 16:39

I would be seriously considering if I wanted to remain friends with them at all but I am a bit black and white which is probably a personal failing. You have to ask yourself why they are not going on holiday with other people apart from you and your family. No-one else would go with them is why!
All the same a polite withdrawal from the holiday set up using the 'Damien won't enjoy it' theme if need be. After that, controlled exposure to the ghastly little knobber until he turns into a decent human being or someone does it for him.

TatianaLarina · 07/08/2019 16:41

and gave similar examples, when you were queried about it, you seem to have completely changed your tune

I think OP meant as they got off the ride they had just finished he decided he would go on it. She has already clarified.

biggles50 · 07/08/2019 16:43

It'd be a shame to lose such long a long term friendship. Maybe you could approach Lisa in a very diplomatic way without in any way criticising Damien. You're " wondering if Damien will be ok on holiday with everyone, he does say he's bored at yours and has nothing to do, perhaps he'd hate spending more time with my family. You're not sure if your child can hack any more karate moves and given that he tends to race off on occasions you're already worried about searching for him in a completely different location, what do you think Lisa?" This can be said conversationaly, nicely and with no hint of criticism, just genuine concern regarding a holiday on which he perhaps couldn't cope.

croprotationinthe13thcentury · 07/08/2019 16:47

Is this the child in question?

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