Paying Keep

[Lee17]

Hi All,
My 16 yr old daughter has left school is earning now. She is on an Apprenticeship, which starts officially in September. She is earning about £130 a week at the minute, which may well go up if she does more hours. Now, I think it is reasonable for her to pay a little towards her keep. At the moment we are encouraging her to save half, which she is doing but when we mentioned keep she threw a wobbly. Is it reasonable to ask her to pay say £25 a week, then save half of the rest and have the other half to spend as she pleases? My husband and I were brought up to pay keep, many, many years ago! And back then in the early 80s, he was paying about £20 and I was about £15. Any advice please? I think they need to appreciate how long it takes to earn what they intend to spend and to evaluate the cost and if it is worth it. We pay for everything for her at the minute, apart from extra clothes and makeup. Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. Keep or no Keep?

Fragilino and @StoatofDisarray; I only have 2 daughters. The eldest went to Uni to do A Levels and then to another to do her Degree. The first needed travelling to and the last one for the Degree was not near home and meant extortionate lodgings, for 3 years, £90 - £120 A WEEK! She had to get a loan for the 3 years and will now be paying back the over £50,000 accrued debt! She is putting back into a System that hasn't helped her at all! The youngest is now going to be paid to study the course of her choice and at only 15 years, 16 next week, she will be earning at least £130 a week! This isn't about the Child Benefit, that has always gone on the children anyway in one way or another. My eldest daughter worked her socks off whenever she could weekends and holidays to support herself as much as she could. In fact, in the second year of her Degree everyone was very worried about her because she was so tired and so stressed, but that's not any else's business really. We contributed what we could, food, books, furniture.... and NO she wan't living at home so it is a different scenario. I don't understand why those who don't agree with charging a child Keep get so aggressive and rude. I appreciate everyone's opinions, but to suggest that I am treating my younger child differently because she isn't going to Uni is very unjust and untrue. It isn't about THAT! I am proud of my girls because they are nice and caring human beings with morals and manners not because of their academic status; what a strange thing for someone to think. I was just putting it out there to explain why my youngest is able to earn whilst learning, which I think is brilliant. She doesn't like the idea of paying Keep, which I understand but I want to do the right thing for her not what is easiest or kindest. Thanks. Obviously the money will come in handy, we are not well off by any means; wage packets haven't gone up much or at all for years for many of us but everything else has. We struggle like most other families but we work very hard for our money (like many others) and so we appreciate the value of money and that is what I think anyone working needs to be able to do, regardless of their age and come on, 16 isn't that young; she could get married for goodness sake and where would she be then if she didn't understand the value of money, how to make informed financial choices and manage her finances.

To bodgeitandscarper - thank you! That is exactly how it is.

YABU. I would til she's 18. She's still basically a child and hardly earning anything at all. Is it really worth upsetting her for £25 a week? Can't you let her try to learn to budget herself?

And I do think you are treating your children differently. Your other daughter chose to move away from home for, firstly, A levels, and secondly, university. (and why did she need to leave home to do A levels?- have honestly never heard of that before and am just interested)

Sorry, but I think YABU and a bit harsh and unfair.

If your eldest daughter moved home because she couldn't find full time work for a while, would you be charging her the same percentage?

we work very hard for our money (like many others) and so we appreciate the value of money and that is what I think anyone working needs to be able to do,

She is working hard for her money though?

I don't see how you making her walk away with less than half of her wage every week is going to make her appreciate anything.

"But OP would have received CB for DD1 doing A levels. So she was giving Keep so to speak. It was just coming from a different source." That's my view too.

They don't live for free!

Rent/mortgage, gas/elec, water, groceries (which anyone with a teen knows they get through loads of not only food but toiletries & cleaning products too), Internet, tv packages, phone...

It all adds up!

Not every parent can AFFORD to support a full time earning adult (which is what she is as far as the govt is concerned for purposes of any assistance THEY might provide - even though they DON'T count them if they're not working for unemployment stats, even if they're doing unpaid apprenticeships).

I very much suspect those saying how awful the op is for charging a VERY minimal amount of keep less than the child benefit she's losing!

• are fortunate enough to be in a position that they CAN afford to support full time earning adult children still living at home!

If you're LUCKY enough that it isn't actually something you NEED to do, then acknowledge your (and your DCs) luck - but don't be so narrow minded as to claim not to understand that there are MANY families where that simply isn't possible.

Even with that aside I think it encourages an entitled attitude if you don't expect your earning child to pay keep.

"I would insulate her from the vagaries of the benefit system if at all possible." Why? That's the real world!

"I wouldn't ask for keep, no but I'd tell her I wasn't going to pay for her phone or whatever now that she's earning" if it's on a contract it can't be in the dds name anyway. So would still be in op's name and dd would have to give op the money to cover it. I'm betting phone alone is a good chunk out of what op is thinking is a reasonable amount for keep! Certainly when my dd started working and paying keep her phone was my 2nd biggest bill of hers I was covering after food!

Fragalino - what your basically saying is "life isn't fair" well no shit!

The fact is the older dd will likely end up earning more because that's how our society works unfortunately, unless younger dd becomes an excellent hairdresser/beautician at a level where the pay is seriously good, though most don't. On the other hand, depending what industry older dd goes into her employment prospects may be less reliable. I've a few friends that are hairdressers and they do say that while the pay isn't fantastic they ALWAYS have work. Also the older dd will have student debt and sometimes having a degree can work against you depending on if it's a useful one or eg abstract philosophy or something which places you in the "over qualified but lacking cv" desert! The younger dd might be able to afford to learn to drive and get a car earlier than the older dd.

Swings and roundabouts.

I also think some mners have very outdated ideas about uni life now too. You really can't slack off like some did in the past!

I first went in the early 90's when it was to be honest for other students I was sharing with/knew a bit of a doss if they were doing "normal" degrees (mine was nursing so we also had to do 35-40 hours a week on the job training and we didn't get the academic holidays other students did but 6 weeks per year)

When I went again in 00's the atmosphere was very different, because of fees and monitoring and unis being run far more like businesses. Any students who were slacking didn't last past the first Christmas! At least partly because if your attendance was poor you lost not only your funding but any benefits you might be getting and the uni didn't want students like that dragging their results down! Via friends kids at uni and I'm still in touch with a few of the latter times lecturers I understand it's even more the case now that students are expected to really put the effort into their work and attendance levels.

It is NOT a constant piss up!

I didn't say my eldest moved away for A Levels, I said she travelled. In fact, her Community College DROPPED her main subject so she HAD to go elsewhere. And what is this obsession with the Child Benefit? This will stop in September. It doesn't count for anything. And this has always gone on the girls anyway!

My adult kids live at home 1 works at home and the other in poorly paid job. We take nothing for keep. Both buy groceries and stuff for house and help with housework as I am in poor health ( no benefits as they think I am fine but drs and specialis say otherwise)
My kids are and do save , we feel we are giving them the chance to save while they can.
But do what is right for you.

£25 out of £130 sounds reasonable.

Op you asked for opinion on what's fair.

I'm looking at your situation as to what seems fair to me and how I would organise similar for my own girls.

What older daughter has done or hasn't done isn't relevant to younger.

Younger will see how you treat her and older sister. This is the part you seem to miss. Your looking at it from your pov not hers.

Why is she being penalised for older duster choices..
Why not declare an amnesty and simply say to both girls after 21 pay rent.

You seem to want justification for this.
Not the other side.

Older dd could have also got apprenticeship and be adding to household income.

She chose more expensive route, younger has gone direct to money and now she's being penalised.

If you actually do 'need' her to contribute then perhaps come clean and just lay things out on the table.

Literally bills etc.

But it's hot you gers fault older has had to pay back a system that hasn't helped her and now she is getting paid....

It's not her fault.

Arghhhhhhh.

It's not 'youngers fault'

My first job - at 16 - paid £10/weekend (!) (I’m not even that old, but it was also a way of building up work experience). I still insisted on paying my 10%. Which is ridiculous, in a way, looking back. But my parents had come up with that percentage for my DB and I wanted to respect that. We both stuck to it, and liked paying it (even when we got better paid jobs!) And none of that “saving it up to give it back to them” nonsense that some of our friends had. We wanted to pay our way (however small a way that was)

Older daughter doesn't live at home; hasn't since she started Uni. But when her and her boyfriend were on the summer breaks from their Uni courses, they worked during the summer holidays and paid keep.

Ask her to cover phone contract (assuming this is 20+) and put it in a savings account and give it when she passes the course.

I wouldn’t take money if I was still receiving child benefit and it was an apprenticeship. In the same way I wouldn’t take money from a child earning money from a part time job / paper round. I’d encourage them to save but I don’t think can stipulate you have to save x amount of it. It’s your call, your daughter will probably tell you none of her friends are paying keep from an apprentice wage. And perhaps none are, or maybe some are. It’s your decision as parents but bear in mind many might not agree with your approach. But your home your rules

Blimey, Blunt.... don't mince your words! I see your point but why be so nasty?

It's a bit 'cancel the cheque' now isn't it!

THERE WILL BE NO CHILD BENEFIT

Don't call me Mummy Dearest! How insulting. I am a mum trying to teach her child to respect money, respect herself for working hard and respect the value of things and to very slowly tread the path towards being self sufficient. I do acknowledge though that the keep could be taken prior to her saving some. So £20 keep, which leaves at least £110, then save half that, leaving her £55 to spend as recklessly as she so wishes. I don't need peoples' permission for this, I just wanted constructive advice which I have been given from a lot of people, thankyou. To the rest of you who sit their typing insults at me - I am disappointed at your response. Why be so unkind? Also, what lesson is it teaching our kids if we let them just have loads of money to spend, with nothing to show for it when their parents are out working hard? Where is the respect in that? What sort of adults are we bringing up for the future? Ones that just spend, spend, spend, get in debt, become a burden on society and give nothing back? Nope, not my daughters.

But when her and her boyfriend were on the summer breaks from their Uni courses, they worked during the summer holidays and paid keep.

You charged your student daughter digs money during the summer vacation? Err, wow. I thought my parents were hard up but at least I was able to save up all the money I earned working over the summer, easter and Christmas holidays.

When my father did start talking about charging me digs money in the uni holidays, my mother wouldn't let him, but in actual fact I just never went home again. Its one of the things that really rankles me. Its so difficult to live away from home at such a young age and be responsible for balancing your limited budget on what was then a student grant and earnings from work fitted in in the holidays.

The rest of the family and friends were critical of him as well for this and similar reasons to do with his attitude towards me. When he started talking about that, I never went home again to stay. I just made sure I got holiday jobs as a student which were live-in, or local to where I studied and rented.

I also found out that he lived at home until he got married at 26 himself!

I ended up having counselling about our relationship, or lack of one, and the counsellor had to explain to me that some parents just weren't interested in their children, and that included helping them out beyond the age of 16. Its really hard getting rid of that hurt feeling when you hear of other parents doing stuff for their children but man, it does make you grow up and become independent of them really quickly!

OP I don't really know why you posted. You obviously just want affirmation for your plans. I can only give you my personal view, which is that I think theres nothing wrong with charging digs money to someone in work a little bit older than your daughter, as long as you treat all children equally. Theres nothing wrong with helping your daughters out. It won't magically prevent them from managing their own money. At the moment it comes across as you almost penalising your younger daughter for not going to university, and then I read that you actually charged a student digs money when she will be £50,000 in debt by the end of her course, when she's working in the summer and could presumably use those earnings to pay off a little bit of debt. Really shocked!

I also cannot see the point in you paying for stuff like her phone but charging her digs money if you want her to be independent. Obviously, she can get her own phone contract and it will be useful ID for her in the future and give her a personal credit history. It doesn't even make sense to do what you propose. You are trying to control her income from her wages, which is the opposite of making her independent.

Leaving someone with £40 out of their £150 a week wages in their first job at the age of 16 is like something out of a Dickens novel, as is taking money off a student for digs who is only home for the summer.

She's only 16, an apprenticeship is a form of study and she's being paid naff all in the grand scheme of things. You didn't expect it off her sister who did A levels, why is her apprenticeship less worthy of your financial support? She's even saving! Give her a break.

Apologies for that being such a long post. I was genuinely a bit upset.

If they buy stuff for the house and groceries, that's the same as keep surely?

Bluntness - that is a VILE and completely unnecessary post shame on you!

Poor lass! She's earning sod all! How will she afford driving lessons? She is working full time but she isn't getting a full time wage. It does sound like she's being punished for not being as smart as her sibling otherwise she may have done A levels, had a part time job earning not much less than she is now but wouldn't have to pay keep?