Was I BU telling a woman not to speak to my son?

[Spinoni]

I realise I might be. But in the moment I was so annoyed.

In Sainsbury’s with DD 8 months and DS4
Son wants to go down toy isle- we don’t often to to Sainsburys so he was overly excited. As all 4 year olds are while looking for toys!

Go to the isle, he is looking and I noticed the ‘ boy ‘ toys were down the next isle.
By boy toys I mean toys I know he likes toys he has toys he’s into and toys that are quite frankly marketed at boys.
Me - ‘ ooo look DS name the boys toys are over here ‘
Interfering woman down isle to my son - ‘ you know you can play with whatever you want let your mummy know that ‘

FIRSTLY I was annoyed that I’m not ‘ forcing ‘ him to ‘ boys ‘ toys. It’s stuff I know he wants.
SECONDLY why even say anything?

The thing I massively regret is saying anything.
I said pardon?
And she replied ‘ Sorry it was just the way you said boys toys - when he can play with whatever he wants he shouldn’t be told their just for boys ‘

I replied probably not too politely telling her to mind her own business and I’ll parent how I want to and walked away.
And I could then hear her and another customer talking about me saying how rude I was ?
Was I BU?
I feel mortified I just was angry that something I said was interpreted as me forcing my son into something it’s ridiculous

Yes this woman was rude to comment but it has resulted in making you think and this will benefit your son, I hope.

since around the 1980s (so who exactly is foisting their modern, 'progressive' ideas on who)? In any case, all this 'gender-neutral' stuff - not least the term 'gender-neutral' in itself - tends to be discussed in inflammatory contexts (and is usually accompanied by the suffix the phrase 'gone too far').

It's crapola. 'Unisex' or just plain 'toy' (contemporaneous with the primary colours etc) provokes no argument, and doesn't exactly carry the same provocative connotations. This is because, in reality, there are none.

Yes!! For all the gender theorists on here who seek to think boys just happen to like cars and girls just happen to like princesses, I don't think anyone has explained:
Science kit is a toy (no gender): why do girls need a pink science kit for girls?
Pens (no gender): why do we need 'bic for her' what's specially for my womanly hands?
Kids baking stuff (no gender): do boys need to have blue and green items whislt girls have pink and purple?

Why do some books have stories for boys that are blue and adventure packed but the girl ones are pink and about princesses and love? Can boys not be sensitive? Can girls not enjoy adventure? Why not call them adventure stories and fairytales? Are they gendered?

Good grief when will it ever end? So much ammunition for the professionally offended. Toys are grouped in aisles, by type, for ease of finding them. In recent years I have never seen labels for boys or girls toys.
.

As an aside I've stopped buying 'women's products' ' by that I mean 'pink' shit.
Razors
Shaving gel etc. I buy the stuff marketed at men. It's much better, often cheaper and sturdier and better quality.

sandgrown
The pinkification of girl toys etc feeds into the pinkification of women's stuff too, and funnily enough the women's stuff is more expensive.

It's almost like companies socialise people into things that make the companies money.

It's not about being professionally offended.

I genuinely fail to see how or why a children's cooking set needs to be gendered to boys or girls when it could just be a cooking set that both would use.

most people would agree with her but most people wouldnt say anything. They just privately shake their head at you

I think this pretty much neatly sums it up.

milk but if you got rid of the sexed stickers and only unisex ones were left then they would!

But we’ve decided which are ‘sexed’ stickers. If a kid likes Spider-Man, they like Spider-Man! Who am I to say if they should or not? It’s just an observation that the vast majority of the Spider-Man stickers are chosen by boys and rejected by girls.

When I’m negotiating with an opinionated 3year old, Spider-Man or Tinkerbell hold much more sway that SpongeBob! I’m not going to get rid of the most popular product because I think kids should have something else. That would be imparting my views onto what I think they should choose, not what they want.

To the poster saying 80% of doctors her daughter has seen were women, I’d say that’s society showing her women can be doctors!

But unconscious bias isn't that simple milk you might see lots of female doctors and of course we all know women can be doctors but I guarantee the vast majority of people will say 'he' when talking about a doctor. It's deeply ingrained and is a mix of personal and cultural references.

I had cars, garages, Lego, etc as well as dolls and prams. Ds had kitchen’s, dolls and prams, as well as cars, garages, work bench’s etc. So I don’t see boys and girls toys. I see what a child wants to play with. I think boys toys/girls toys is an odd concept to have.

that's me as well. Yes, society showed her that women can be doctors, but somehow, without me noticing, she picked up that doctors are men. Maybe from books, or TV - I don't know. It was a bit of a shock. But it shows how these messages can get through.

You're missing the point about the stickers. Spider-Man is sexed for children from day 1 - it's for boys. Tinker Bell is for girls. They are not choosing in a vacuum. Have what you like but don't think that because 3 year old boys always go for Spider-Man over Tinker Bell, it's innate.

that's to milk ^

But unconscious bias isn't that simple milk you might see lots of female doctors and of course we all know women can be doctors but I guarantee the vast majority of people will say 'he' when talking about a doctor. It's deeply ingrained and is a mix of personal and cultural references

I was at a work thing and a presenter mentioned his (v high profile in the industry) female CEO several times - both directly by name and also by she/her references.

Not 5 minutes later, a delegate stood up to ask a question and specifically referred to the CEO as a he.

If anyone is interested in unconscious bias there's a really good test designed by Harvard. It's very American but interesting. Just Google unconscious bias and Harvard and it should come up.

We all have them....it's essentially a fight/flight response. We can't help that initial reaction. The key is recognising what yours are and taking steps to ensure they don't impact on the interactions you have and decisions you make.

She has the right idea, but I wouldn't have said anything to you, and she should have spoken through your son. It sounds like you were spectacularly rude so overall I think YABU

Thank you toomuchtooold it may not be rigjt but it's the world we are in and it's tough. Especially at school. So yes icerebel I wish my parents also taught me how to dress like other girls my age and wear make up. I could still be the tomboy I was at home and with my friends but I wouldn't have been picked on. And at 13 most people don't confide in adults for help, I didn't. It was miserable. People shouldn't push their agendas onto their kids, and if my son wanted to wear a pink skirt to school I most certainly wouldn't let him, it would be cruel.

m3lon y9ure missing the point. It's not forcing me into anything, they missed teaching me to be a young woman. And it cost me. It wouldn't have changed who I was it would have helped me a lot though. They just left me to it instead of showing me how to dress and get made up. You can be a tom boy and dress nicely sometimes too!!

Fuck me, some of this makes for very depressing reading!

I absolutely would have said something to someone promoting damaging sexist stereotyping to a child. I would have said it to you though.

If a person pointed out to someone they were promoting racist stereotyping to a child, should that person be called a do gooding PC cunt who should fuck off? I think - and hope - most people would think pointing out racism or homophobia (especially when aimed at a child) was a good thing? I don't think someone would start a thread saying "I told my son tutus were for gay children and a woman pulled me up on it, AIBU to be rude to her and encourage people on MN to insult her?" I think MN would overwhelming support the women challenging homophobia or racism.

Is it just sexism that should be ignored?

The more women speak up about this shit which is damaging them and their children, the better. It's ironic that some people think women should be silenced for speaking what is after all, the truth, or they are fair game to be judged negatively and abused.

This is exactly where it starts and we need to stop it, not turn a blind eye to it. We should all be speaking up.

YANBU OP. My daughter wouldn't been seen dead playing with cars or footballs, she was into barbie and all things pink at that age. even though I never pushed these on her and always gave her the opportunity to play with what she wanted (her db meant she had access to all sorts). You know your ds better than anyone.

Her sentiments were right, but she needs to know her audience in future

So yes icerebel I wish my parents also taught me how to dress like other girls my age and wear make up. I could still be the tomboy I was at home and with my friends but I wouldn't have been picked on.
That's it adults. Don't encourage your child to be who they are and be happy and confident in themselves. Don't bring your child up with the message that bullying is wrong and deal with bullying when it happens.

Nope. Teach your children to conform to whatever every other boy/girls is doing in their teenage years.

It doesnt matter if you miss out on your passion or something you're really talented with, because adults should stop you doing it if narrow minded folk can't broaden their minds.
Don't learn to be confident in your own skin girls. Learn to apply makeup and spend years involved in conversations picking apart your face and flaws because that's what girls do.

Give me strength.

I was in a shop the other day, looking at toys. One aisle was full of pink sparkly things. My DS, who is 4, said 'No mum, we are looking for the boys toys'.
He knows what he was looking for and he knew it wasn't in the girl's toy aisle. He also knows that the time he wanted a pink helicopter and a My Little Pony, he could ask for it and that's fine too.
There are blatantly marketed GIRLS and BOYS toys. I have no issue with this, as a previous poster also put, it's the same for clothes.

You really have no issues with toys bring assigned to gender? Please elaborate....what do you consider to be a boys toy opposed to a girls toy?

My DS picked a sparkly teddy bear yesterday. It's that a girls toy? Or is it okay because it was blue??

*being

I fully agree; however, I think this attitude is far more prevalent now than it was 30 years ago. We seem to have gone backwards.

I think we have gone backwards too.

When I was a child you wee a tomboy if you played with boys toys.

Now you are an actual boy in the wrong body and you must be Trans and transition and change your name to Dave.

But why is it any of other woman's business what @Spinoni did or didn't say to her son? I think that's the point she's trying to make. Whether it was a poor choice of words or not, it's got nothing to do with a random woman in the supermarket.

I shop in a large Sainsburys at least twice a week and, as such often buy toys from there for my GS as I did for DD and DS
I have never seen obviously separate sections of girls and boys toys.