To suggest that safeguarding should be paramount when dealing with children?

[KatieAlcock]

Because it was on these grounds that I was expelled from Girlguiding.

My story was in the Mail on Sunday yesterday and in the Telegraph today.

I'm taking them to court over my dismissal - they investigated me for talking about their policies on social media, but ultimately decided that I was OK to talk to a small group of people about the ins and outs of GG policy.

But they also decided that it is NOT OK for a leader to put safeguarding above policies - they specifically state trans policies, but frankly, wouldn't you rather your girl's Brownie leader put safeguarding ahead of any policy?

Also, AIBU to say that Mumnetters and other women are INCREDIBLY generous and helpful and that I've now managed to achieve something with their help? But that I'm not supposed to say what I've achieved? Or that I still need help?

I doubt kids give a shit. Really. It's their dumb parents with nothing else to worry about.

If these threads annoy you then don't read them and certainly don't reply to them. Problem solved.

Many kids change their gender identity way before physically transitioning.

I'm sure there was a report that concluded that mixed sex toilets increased the risk to females.

Still irrelevant because they can't get a GRC.

So pretending that same sex spaces don't protect females is false.

I'll do what I like thanks, hugs.

But Greeve doesn't care about sharing intimate spaces with men Glitch. And clearly as the world revolves around her then who gives a shit about the risk to other women or how they might feel? As long as Greeve as fine then that is all that matters.

*is fine.

Greeve

98% of sexual offences are carried out by males. It is largely for this exact reason that we have single sex facilities and provision in certain situations. Women, as a class, are much lower risk and risk assessments reflect this very fact.

Can you tell me exactly what it is that takes a male who 'identifies as female' out of the 'high risk' category of male and into the low risk category of female? And why parents who believe that their female kids are sharing sleeping/changing/washing facilities with only other females shouldn't be told that their kids are in fact actually sharing with males? Because I don't geddit?

If it really was about protecting girls then are you protecting the trans boys in the male and mixed spaces ?

As a real life example. Your teen daughter is struggling with her blossoming body. She has noticeable breasts. She doesn't like them. They draw unwanted attraction her way. She talks to another member of her section about her feelings.

The second person in this scenario is a young transman. They are transitioning. wearing binders, taking drugs to change their body from female to male. They feel wholeheartedly that they are male in the body of a woman.

Therefore when a young girl says they don't like their breasts, the second person applies their own lived experience and offers their old binder in order to reduce the breast protrusion.

Both members have been failed by GGUK. The first, because they are told someone has complained that they are trans and end up leaving the organisation. When in fact the complaint was that the young person had acted inappropriately in assuming the second felt the same. The second was failed because GGUk claims to give girls a safe space to discuss such matters and they failed to do this in an open and supportive environment.

If it really was about protecting girls then are you protecting the trans boys in the male and mixed spaces ?

No because transboys shouldn't be in male spaces in the first place.

Tbh I'm more interested in asking you why you think it's appropriate for someone who is biologically female to be forced to use male spaces when IME the majority of transboys and transmen don't want to be there.

@Fizzypoo - and your stance is where i am. My daughter is safe on her scout camp right now, outnumbered 2:1 by boys and with only male leaders. But I know this and it was discussed at length what the sleeping and washing arrangements were.

But for the young women where being around unrestricted males is a problem, GGUk touts itself as a safe space.

And introduced its changes by the back door. They did not tell their leaders. They did not tell their members. They removed their ability to consent with the full picture.

@Fizzypoo - and your stance is where i am. My daughter is safe on her scout camp right now, outnumbered 2:1 by boys and with only male leaders. But I know this and it was discussed at length what the sleeping and washing arrangements were.

But for the young women where being around unrestricted males is a problem, GGUk touts itself as a safe space.

And introduced its changes by the back door. They did not tell their leaders. They did not tell their members. They removed their ability to consent with the full picture.

@Fizzypoo - and your stance is where i am. My daughter is safe on her scout camp right now, outnumbered 2:1 by boys and with only male leaders. But I know this and it was discussed at length what the sleeping and washing arrangements were.

But for the young women where being around unrestricted males is a problem, GGUk touts itself as a safe space.

And introduced its changes by the back door. They did not tell their leaders. They did not tell their members. They removed their ability to consent with the full picture.

@Fizzypoo - and your stance is where i am. My daughter is safe on her scout camp right now, outnumbered 2:1 by boys and with only male leaders. But I know this and it was discussed at length what the sleeping and washing arrangements were.

But for the young women where being around unrestricted males is a problem, GGUk touts itself as a safe space.

And introduced its changes by the back door. They did not tell their leaders. They did not tell their members. They removed their ability to consent with the full picture.

@Fizzypoo - and your stance is where i am. My daughter is safe on her scout camp right now, outnumbered 2:1 by boys and with only male leaders. But I know this and it was discussed at length what the sleeping and washing arrangements were.

But for the young women where being around unrestricted males is a problem, GGUk touts itself as a safe space.

And introduced its changes by the back door. They did not tell their leaders. They did not tell their members. They removed their ability to consent with the full picture.

Women, as a class, are much lower risk and risk assessments reflect this very fact.

And women are constantly told that we need to keep ourselves safe and not put ourselves in risky situations.

Yet when we want to discuss keeping ourselves safe we are told we are overreacting, just a bunch of man haters (and these days transphobic too!) and get told to stop making a fuss. Very confusing.

I'd rather promote good boundaries, body ownership and confidence and assertiveness to help safeguard my child.

Gosh if only I'd had good boundaries, body ownership and confidence - then I wouldn't have been sexually assaulted as a petite young teen by a much larger Male teacher. Silly me - it was my fault after all.

I'd rather promote good boundaries, body ownership and confidence and assertiveness to help safeguard my child.

Gosh if only I'd had good boundaries, body ownership and confidence - then I wouldn't have been sexually assaulted as a petite young teen by a much larger Male teacher. Silly me - it was my fault after all.

HugsAreMyDrugs

Exactly!

Women are told: don't walk home alone, don't walk through that alley, don't get drunk, don't wear too short a skirt, don't live your life freely, you never know who's out there, pervs on every corner.

But then when women suggest wanting to maintain something which is proven to keep them safer (ie maintain single sex spaces) but means that some males might not be able to do exactly as they wish suddenly they are 'paranoid' and 'bigoted' and 'selfish'.

Well fuck that.

Women are told: don't walk home alone, don't walk through that alley, don't get drunk, don't wear too short a skirt, don't live your life freely, you never know who's out there, pervs on every corner.

But then when women suggest wanting to maintain something which is proven to keep them safer (ie maintain single sex spaces) but means that some males might not be able to do exactly as they wish suddenly they are 'paranoid' and 'bigoted' and 'selfish'.

Well fuck that.

This. 100% We need safe spaces. YANBU to insist on this OP. Safeguarding is vital.

@IAskTooManyQuestions my point, and both I and the journalist thought it was clear, was that if a child came to me and told me these things - I've done a or b and I'm trans - they told us we wouldn't be allowed to tell anyone a or b because it would involve revealing that the child was trans.

I feel very protective towards children in my care, and "no secrets" is safeguarding 101.

What is with all the TERF on mumsnet? I've never known a space online which isn't deliberately a transphobic echo chamber that is so so transphobic.

Are all the girls on these trips in completely single sex environments? Are their parents always informed of this by professionals?

My son recently went on a school residential. It was mixed sex. No one got pregnant, had sex, was raped. There are 3 same sex couples on the trip. No one had any issues and everyone was safe.

You're entitled to your views. You're not entitled to avoid the consequences of having views which largely society disagrees with. The fact that your story has been picked up by the mail and the telegraph says a lot. YABU.