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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To suggest that safeguarding should be paramount when dealing with children?

132 replies

KatieAlcock · 05/08/2019 15:02

Because it was on these grounds that I was expelled from Girlguiding.

My story was in the Mail on Sunday yesterday and in the Telegraph today.

I'm taking them to court over my dismissal - they investigated me for talking about their policies on social media, but ultimately decided that I was OK to talk to a small group of people about the ins and outs of GG policy.

But they also decided that it is NOT OK for a leader to put safeguarding above policies - they specifically state trans policies, but frankly, wouldn't you rather your girl's Brownie leader put safeguarding ahead of any policy?

Also, AIBU to say that Mumnetters and other women are INCREDIBLY generous and helpful and that I've now managed to achieve something with their help? But that I'm not supposed to say what I've achieved? Or that I still need help?

OP posts:

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:48

It wouldn't bother me if it wasnt single sex. Single sex isn't something I'd look out for.

DV, sexual abuse and coercion is very common amongst LGBT teen so it's of equal concern to me as avoiding those things within heterosexual teenage relationships. In fact, the same gender thing can blur the lines and make them think some levels of violence are okay as there isn't the gender based power difference.

Similarly, pregnancy isn't of more concern to be than sexual abuse or coercion. I'd be happier if my daughter made an informed choice to have sex and pregnancy was a consequence of that than I would her be coerced or forced into sex. Your fixation on pregnancy is bizarre.

But mostly these are going to be people who are trying to live their lives. I do not see any increased risk of a trans person committing sexual abuse or fucking a kid or whatever. Men do it. Women do it. Trans people do it. We can only teach our kids to enforce their boundaries and speak up when they've been violated. That's our only real defence.

GlitchStitch · 05/08/2019 16:50

Jo is male Butter. Or do you think identifying as a girl yields some magic power that prevents pregnancy, or a female from feeling uncomfortable or embarrassed?

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:52

I think some people equate gender and sexuality. Just because someone who was a boy becomes a girl, it doesn't mean they will fancy girls. They might fancy boys.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 05/08/2019 16:52

how we ensure that the other girls who attend are not homosexual?

What a stupid analogy.

GlitchStitch · 05/08/2019 16:53

It wouldn't bother me if it wasnt single sex. Single sex isn't something I'd look out for.

Good for you. It would concern lots of parents, not least from particular religious groups, or any other parent who has made what they believe to be an informed decision. The issue is whether it's acceptable for GG to lie to parents. And yes, pregnancy is a concern since it is the girl who will have to deal with the consequences.

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:53

No it's a perfect analogy. If you're trying to reduce the amount of people who might be sexually attracted to your child and act on it.

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:55

But why does being a trans girl mean that other girls will sexually excite you. Even if you refuse to accept their identity as a girl, surely you understand that some boys are attracted to other boys and actually wanting to be a girl is probably a sign that you're likely to be attracted to boys and not girls.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 05/08/2019 16:55

I think some people equate gender and sexuality.

Hang on a sec here. Didn't you literally just say this:

how we ensure that the other girls who attend are not homosexual?

I really don't think we're the ones who are confused here.

GlitchStitch · 05/08/2019 16:55

Just because someone who was a boy becomes a girl

Can you explain how they 'become a girl' please?

Beebeezed · 05/08/2019 16:56

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:56

Yes.. you are. You're confusing the fact that some people who are born male will definitely be attracted to girls because they were born with a penis. That doesn't make any sense.

Some might, sure. But so might some people who happily identify as female but are gay.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 05/08/2019 16:56

No it's a perfect analogy. If you're trying to reduce the amount of people who might be sexually attracted to your child and act on it.

Lesbian sex doesn't result in pregnancy.

You're also assuming that lesbians are more likely to be sexual predators than straight women. So very homophobic.

GlitchStitch · 05/08/2019 16:57

actually wanting to be a girl is probably a sign that you're likely to be attracted to boys and not girls.

I see far more transwomen identifying as lesbians than straight these days.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 05/08/2019 16:57

But so might some people who happily identify as female but are gay.

Pretty sure that last statement could be considered transphobic.

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:57

@GlitchStitch

Whether they are really a girl is irrelevant. What is relevant is that boy or girl says nothing about the gender you are attracted to.

Even if you refuse to accept their identity as a girl, surely you understand that some boys are attracted to other boys and actually wanting to be a girl is probably a sign that you're likely to be attracted to boys and not girls.

GlitchStitch · 05/08/2019 16:58

Lesbians are still female, so the space remains single sex. We segregate by sex for reasons of safety, dignity and privacy. If an organisation decides to unilaterally change that then they have a duty to inform parents. That is the issue.

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:59

@HugsAreMyDrugs

So you don't mind if Vanessa George has a little go on your daughter, because she won't get knocked up. Right.

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Greeve · 05/08/2019 16:59

But single sex doesn't ensure nobody is getting off looking at your naked kid.

HugsAreMyDrugs · 05/08/2019 17:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ because it repeats a deleted post. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Butters83 · 05/08/2019 17:02

I have a question....How would you even implement this?

Is a birth certificate needed to join the GG?

How would you even know if you have had a trans girl already stay for a sleepover? Do you check their underwear?

HugsAreMyDrugs · 05/08/2019 17:02

But single sex doesn't ensure nobody is getting off looking at your naked kid.

Pretty sure gay men won't get off on seeing naked women either but I still don't want to get changed in front of them.

Are you deliberately missing the point?

Greeve · 05/08/2019 17:02

Girls bully just as much as boys. Your daughter is just as likely to not tell you that a girl has made her feel sexually violated than she is a boy. In fact, she might not even recognise it as inappropriate when it comes from another female.

titchy · 05/08/2019 17:03

I find your assumptions that men are inherently dangerous to children to be both baseless and offensive. So on both sides, I agree with their decision.

Happy for Jon Bloggs, the boys PE teacher, to be in the girls changing room or shower then at your school...?

titchy · 05/08/2019 17:04

Jo is a girl, no matter what is between her legs

As presumably is Jessica Y...

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