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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to question if Brexiteers have any facts to back up their arguments?

146 replies

FarawayTreeFolk · 04/08/2019 04:13

All I get from Brexiteers who believe in No Deal is that they think that "It will be alright!" Is they think everything will miraculously work out for the best.

No facts to offer, nothing. Nothing other than a religious style conviction that it will all be alright in the end.

Is that all they've got at their disposal to convince me that No Deal is a good idea?

OP posts:
KC225 · 04/08/2019 05:48

Surely the same can be said for both sides.

There is Brexit board, maybe they can help.

Crispmonster123 · 04/08/2019 06:09

Remainers don’t know either. Don’t start spouting about what the ‘experts’ are saying either. Unless they have a time machine, it’s not facts with them either.

namechange34 · 04/08/2019 06:50

No they don't have any facts. Generally, I would say, they don't understand or acknowledge the problems 🤷‍♀️ so they don't feel the need to. I'm genuinely scared of what's happening in this country.

TwistyTop · 04/08/2019 07:20

Nobody really knows exactly what will happen though, do they?

dancingcamper · 04/08/2019 07:30

Agee that nobody has a clue what will happen. Which is exactly how our country should be run, obviously.

Northernparent68 · 04/08/2019 07:30

Yes, plenty. See leave EU, or the Brexit party.

MaxNormal · 04/08/2019 07:32

Nobody really knows exactly what will happen though, do they?

There's a fairly clear idea yes. However Brexiteers dismiss it as lies even though it's actual government leaks, as it doesn't suit their agenda/cult beliefs.

Wiltshirelass2019 · 04/08/2019 07:36

Can this be moved to the Brexit board? Not all of us on Mumsnet are interested in bullying people for their private democratic right to vote how they see fit....

WillLokireturn · 04/08/2019 07:53

@Wiltshirelass2019
Glad you said this too

familycourtq · 04/08/2019 07:55

YABU there are very few facts on either side, but your prejudice is colouring your view

familycourtq · 04/08/2019 07:57

@Wiltshirelass2019 I also agree but MN will apparently only move this shite to the Brexit board if the op asks, which they won’t as they want a fight on here.

DippyAvocado · 04/08/2019 08:01

Yes, plenty. See leave EU, or the Brexit party.

GrinGrin

No, there are no facts in support of Brexit. It is purely based on emotion which is why it's so difficult to argue against. The facts are:

Brexit, especially no-deal,is very bad for the UK economy. This is agreed by pretty much everyone who knows anything about economics and the government's own analysis. The only pro-Brexit economists (Patrick Minford and his tiny tribe of "Economists for Brexit") have been roundly disproved by every other economist. They've gone very quiet recently.

Brexit is destabilising for the peace process in Northern Ireland. A hard border is unworkable as part of the peace process. A sea border could work but has been deemed unacceptable by the government.

There are plenty of non-facts bandied about but these are easily checkable if people bothered to do so. Eg, the UK will be forced to join an EU army. No, individual member states have a veto on any kind of joint military action. Or Turkey is joining the EU. Nope,it has been trying to meet the many accession criteria since the mid-1980s and has achieved a total of one (which it's probably lost under the Erdogan presidency anyway).

Brexit is like some sort of weird cult. In 2016 there was no mention of leaving without a deal, but now all Brexit supporters insist this is what they voted for. Unfortunately, like with a cult, views are entrenched. People hate to admit they've made a mistake. The only way out is to keep kicking the can until enough of the younger generation have changed the agenda, or compromise by having an EEA-style agreement which would have been bearable for pretty much everyone after the referendum until Theresa May set out her stupid intransigent red lines.

FarawayTreeFolk · 04/08/2019 08:01

As Remainders aren't trying to change the Status Quo, it is up to the Brexiteers to provide cast iron evidence that we are going to be better off outside the EU.

OP posts:
steff13 · 04/08/2019 08:03

Actually, I don't think it is. No one is obligated to convince you of anything.

namechange34 · 04/08/2019 08:08

I work in pharma. Do people really think "nobody knows" is sufficient for our supply chain planning?

Wiltshirelass2019 · 04/08/2019 08:09

Try taking up a hobby like tennis or something to take your mind off things.... Unfortunately Brexit is going to happen so there’s no point in these silly posts. We all need to get out of the ‘i’m a remainder’ ‘I’m a brexiter’ tribal mindset and get on with our lives. People aren’t bad or stupid or wrong for voting differently from you and they don’t need to explain themselves. Voting is private and should remain that way x

whirlwinds · 04/08/2019 08:33

I must be blind because I can clearly see what kind of life and what is on offer staying in the EU gives, as well as the type of life that can be with a Norway deal. I can also see those countries that are outside of the EU working real hard to become a member or were outside and become members, they didn't think being outside the EU was good for them. What I can not see is the benefit of being outside all of this and negotiating with every single bugger for years on end and having to wait for the approval of these deal to accepted. Only to get a worse deal than what is already on the table, why give tiny Britain a better deal than the EU? Doesn't work like that in our workforce, people in unions have stronger cards to play with than those outside of a union, the principle is the same.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 04/08/2019 08:42

Well the choice was vote Remain and keep things as they are or vote leave and changes will happen what might happen apart form us leaving the EU is unclear

The point being for many people they didn’t want things to stay the same as they had been suffering for so long regardless of what government was in so to remain felt wrong for then and people vote on what feels right for themselves - a change

LatteLove · 04/08/2019 08:44

Don’t start spouting about what the ‘experts’ are saying either. Unless they have a time machine, it’s not facts with them either.

They don’t, but there’s a chance that Mark Carney is slightly better informed than Jim from Barnsley

LatteLove · 04/08/2019 08:47

The point being for many people they didn’t want things to stay the same as they had been suffering for so long regardless of what government was in so to remain felt wrong for then and people vote on what feels right for themselves - a change

And if they think BoJo and chums are going to make things better for them in any way, they deserve the accusations of being thick and stupid that have been levelled at them.

If they think they’ve “suffered” before, they’ve not seen anything yet

LatteLove · 04/08/2019 08:48

The posts on one of the other threads “I voted remain but would now support no deal” were the most baffling. I’m just aghast at the cavalier attitude and stupidity.

Gruzinkerbell1 · 04/08/2019 08:50

“It is up to Brexiteers to provide cast iron evidence that we are going to be better off outside the EU.”

Um, not really. It’s happening now, whether Remainers are happy or not. Brexiteers “won”, they don’t need to provide evidence of anything.

LatteLove · 04/08/2019 08:54

This reply has been deleted

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arethereanyleftatall · 04/08/2019 09:07

Of course there's no facts, it's the future.

arethereanyleftatall · 04/08/2019 09:07

For either side.