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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

People who have never experienced being in family court

999 replies

SavanahXx · 02/08/2019 23:40

It really does my head in when people side with social services. They have an opinion that "they are just doing what's best for the child". These people that have the opinion mostly have never even had involvement with SS, therefore don't see the lies and manipulation of a situation that they use.

It's easy for them to say that a parent 'could pose a risk' but do you know how hard it is to prove you wouldn't?

I seen an utterly revolting article that really baffled me. Social workers manage to get away with this stuff daily. Yet its not reported as it should be. This child was removed, with a judges permission. Then placed back with the mother by another judge.
There is so much corruption in our society and it needs to change.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/06/13/social-worker-criticised-child-taken-away-mother-refused-give/amp/

OP posts:
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Isatis · 03/08/2019 11:10

If you actually read my previous posts. You'll find that I've said that when children are neglected and abused that's a different story.

But you said that no child should be the subject of forced adoption. How are those two statements reconcilable?

But being removed and put for adoption because that child could be potentially at risk of significant emotional/physical harm. I don't see how that's right.

So what should happen, OP, when, say, a child's mother shacks up with a known paedophile; or when she's had six previous children removed because of significant physical harm and neglect? Should we just wait till the child gets abused a few times by the new partner or the mother has been neglecting and hitting the new baby for a few weeks?

Bored40 · 03/08/2019 11:15

@darkriver19886 I'm stepping out the thread but I cross posted with yours and didn't want to read and run.
That's a brave post to write and I'm sorry that that was the outcome for you and your family. Before working with children I worked in adult mental health services and it wasn't until I switched that I realised how much MH services are soley patient focused - there really needs to be better joined up working between mental health services and children's services, and better understanding of parents with mental health issues.

LadyPenelope68 · 03/08/2019 11:16

Most people who are "appalled" at this type of report are usually parents who have had their children removed. These parents are
given every opportunity to engage with services before it gets to separation. May can't, choose not to, or refuse to believe that there is a problem and they sually are the problem and the reason it's crucial to remove the child. It's not a snap decision made by Social Services just to ruin someone's life.

SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 11:20

Imagine if people actually knew how bad they can be. Imagine if people had their own minds and didn't care that they don't have the same stupid stereotype opinion that SS are good etc. Maybe something would change if people demand a change.

OP posts:
Isatis · 03/08/2019 11:20

OP, you seem unable to take on board the fact that many people are accepting that there are some social workers who take some bad decisions, and indeed who are just as bad as you say - but who are reasonably pointing out that that doesn't mean that all social workers are the evil child snatchers that you depict. For every case of a bad decision that hits the papers, there are hundreds of cases happening throughout the country where they take good decisions that literally save children's lives, but those don't get publicity because there's no news value in them.

Can you not accept that it is at least possible that some children are removed from their parents entirely justifiably?

Isatis · 03/08/2019 11:21

OP, any chance of you answering my question about what we should do with children when the facts demonstrate an extremely high potential for them to be abused, assaulted and neglected?

SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 11:23

If you read my pp's I have said sometimes it's needed. And also that not all SS are like this.. is anyone actually reading my posts or just jumping on the bandwagon of other people's comments?

OP posts:
Jamieson90 · 03/08/2019 11:23

You're off your rocker OP!

I work in a school and deal with safeguarding concerns all the time. I know of lots of children in neglectful and abusive homes who have yet to be removed because their parents are being given another chance to rectify the situation / not enough evidence has been collected yet.

These children come into school every morning hungry and we provide them breakfast and fruit out of our own money. Their hair is always riddled with lice, they're teeth are black and falling out, their clothes are dirty and unwashed and they're so small they look 2 years younger. To top it off their parents show up clearly smelling of alcohol and drugs, and yet children's services have not 'stolen' them yet from their 'loving homes'.

Get real.

SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 11:24

You could potentially snap at any given moment... Literally anyone could... Does that mean we all shouldn't be parents?

OP posts:
SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 11:25

😂😂😂

OP posts:
titchy · 03/08/2019 11:25

They work in the best interest of the government. By that I mean cost savings and minimum effort.

Well given that a court case will cost thousands, and to keep a child in care costs tens of thousands each year, that doesn't really stack up does it? Hmm It's SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper to leave a kid with their parents.

MakeItRain · 03/08/2019 11:27

Sounds like you've had a tough time OP. Threaded through the harsher replies are lots of people who have had similar experiences to yours. I hope things settle down for you and you can focus on enjoying your baby now. Flowers

darkriver19886 · 03/08/2019 11:28

My last post before i step out of this thread. @SavanahXx you sound more like a petulant child who isn't getting what she wants. Not helping just saying.

Isatis · 03/08/2019 11:28

If you read my pp's I have said sometimes it's needed. And also that not all SS are like this.. is anyone actually reading my posts or just jumping on the bandwagon of other people's comments?

Yes, I am reading them, which is why I'm struggling to make sense of what you said. You said that "No child should be put through forced adoption" and "But being removed and put for adoption because that child could be potentially at risk of significant emotional/physical harm. I don't see how that's right." So you seem to be saying that even when a parent has a dreadful history of child abuse and neglect, or gets together with a known paedophile, it would not be right to remove children who are potentially at risk of significant harm.

It is you who are making these wild blanket statements, OP, not anyone else. Can you at least take on board that so-called "forced adoption" for children at risk of harm may well be the right decision in many cases?

TacoLover · 03/08/2019 11:30

I don't know why people keep trying to engage with the OP. Someone who refers to social services as a 'baby snatching organisation' is clearly not even barely rational.

SavanahXx · 03/08/2019 11:31

Only in SOME cases... But the ones were it's just "potential" no. I won't get on board. Anyone could potentially do anything at any given moment. Does that mean no one should have children?

OP posts:
makingmammaries · 03/08/2019 11:32

If forced adoption is ‘the right decision in many cases’, how come there are only two countries in Europe that practise it?

FlatheadScrewdriver · 03/08/2019 11:33

Oh Lord I wasn't going to post because it was clearly never really a thread about listening, but if @darkriver19886 has the courage and persistence to post, I can't sit back.

I come at this from the adopter's perspective. In my encounters with social workers I have met at least 12:
1 x initial assessor
4 x trainers in therapeutic parenting and trauma in children
2 x full assessors of me over 4 months
2 x children's social worker as my later child changed social worker
3 x post-adoption support workers to help my child start to understand their life story

Of those, I have found:
ALL were over-worked and had huge caseloads
Most were well-intentioned, highly experienced and very carefully neutral (I.e. very careful not to use negative terms to describe a child's birth family)
1 was inexperienced, not great at following through on what they promised, needed a lot of chasing up, and had inaccuracies in their report writing. However, they were supervised, and my complaints were listened to.

I was given reports about my child, that had been part of their court papers, from:
Paediatrician
Health visitor
Specialist medical consultants for specific conditions
Social worker
Nursery worker
Family support worker (summary only, not detail as that confidential to the birth family quite rightly)
Judge's summing up

It took restraining orders from previous partners, many years, and one sibling death, plus years of weekly then daily family support worker interventions, before finally a large group of children were removed (most to other family members). Birth mum is not yet able to see that she put any of her children at risk.

As I access a number of support groups for my child, I know quite a lot of adoptive families. All the children are permanently affected by their early lives. All the children deserve the very best chance at a safe and happy life. Apart from in the very few obvious extreme cases, it is very hard to truly know what is happening inside a family, and that's why social workers are involved long-term often, trying to get to know the true picture and see if support can turn a situation around. It is frustrating for everyone when there's rapid staff turnover, and things seem to stall or mistakes in reports are made.

It's not a perfect system. Safeguards exist, such as the independent assessors, the courts, the requirements for police and health reports and other professionals. It will still never be perfect but that's not a reason to stop trying or take potshots at the good social workers doing their best. (And of course, some in the profession won't be good at their jobs, or will be burned out but still working, or will be careless - like in nursing, or teaching, or office work - because people are people.)

We are ALL responsible and accountable for the community we live in. We could all do more, to support friends, to ask people we suspect are struggling if they need help, to speak up if we think a child is in an unsafe situation. I don't see that making anonymous forum posts about how a whole profession could do better, is helping anyone.

Jamieson90 · 03/08/2019 11:33

Also to add to my previous post, the vast majority of abusive but especially neglectful parents, do so believing they are doing nothing wrong. They simply don't know how to look after children. Incidentally, they all loved their children too ... that doesn't change the fact that they were abusing their children and causing them significant harm.

Simply loving your children doesn't make you a good parent.

Schuyler · 03/08/2019 11:33

I was prepared to have an open discussion about various issues that concern me such as; lack of resources, a minority of incompetent social workers who do harm and a paternalistic court system. However, I see you have resorted to the stereotypical “baby snatchers” line and you don’t want to discuss the serious issues. You are more interested in “laughing your arse off” at posters and calling them “nieve” (SIC).

If we had intelligent discussion from people who have used services, we could actually improve them! So, I am led to believe you don’t actually want to improve things for abused and neglected children or children who are removed in a heavy handed way. You just want to rant about your bad experience which is fair enough but you’re not being open and honest. You don’t want to discuss any issues or even make any effort towards improving them for others, you just want to rant about your own personal sense of injustice.

andannabegins · 03/08/2019 11:36

I have experience of ss. I was a foster carer then an adoptive parent. If you ask me then ss were brilliant and protected my little one. If you asked the birth parents then ss were evil bastards who ripped a baby from their perfect angelic arms. It's all about perception. No person who has had negative dealings with ss are going to hold their hands up and say 'ss were tight, my kids should have been removed'

Isatis · 03/08/2019 11:36

But the ones were it's just "potential" no. I won't get on board.

Goodness. So, so far as you are concerned, in the examples I cited, we should wait to protect the children till the paedophile partner has abused them a few times; or until the mother with a history of assault and neglect has been abusing and beating her baby for a few weeks.

And you accuse other people of being naive?

Isatis · 03/08/2019 11:38

If forced adoption is ‘the right decision in many cases’, how come there are only two countries in Europe that practise it?

In the countries that don't, children removed from abusive and neglectful parents tend to spend their childhoods being shunted around between different children's homes and foster parents with no security and no experience of loving parents. Is that really preferable, @makingmammaries?

growingfrenchlavender · 03/08/2019 11:40

I think it is worthy of a discussion Isatis

makingmammaries · 03/08/2019 11:41

Isatis, can you tell me more about the countries that shunt them around?