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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask leavers if they would vote differently now it's looking like no deal?

703 replies

TheoriginalLEM · 02/08/2019 07:31

And as such should we go for another referendum?

I voted to remain and would continue to do so even if a deal was possible. However it is apparent that a deal isn't going to happen. Was it ever really going to be possible?

Would that change the mind of leavers? Or even remainers?

I would prefer to see no deal (even though I know its shit) than for this car crash to continue in slow motion any further.

OP posts:
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6
wheresmymojo · 02/08/2019 12:15

Would the Ireland border issue still have been an issue if the Tories weren't with the DUP? I mean, it should be but would they have pushed things through if the NI leader hadnt said - err, hang on a minute?

It's arguably the DUP who are causing the Irish border issue. Otherwise we could have a border in the Irish Sea and no border on the island of Ireland.

AtmosClock · 02/08/2019 12:15

“To represent a person means to do their bidding, not scoff and hand down their noble thought on the matter.”

@AskMeAboutBoswell

Where did you get this idea from? It’s quite an alien idea to UK politics.

Pensionista · 02/08/2019 12:16

If we revoked Article 50 now how do you think the EU would respond. They already think they can bully us into taking their terms. In my humble opinion, I would have thought it was in their interests to work a deal out that would suit us all albeit with compromises on all sides. Some Countries in the EU must want that to.

MrPan · 02/08/2019 12:16

I'd think there was an utter confusion in a lot of people's minds about what the govt is responsible for and what the agreed EU, democratically-arrived at decisions are responsible for.

So, austerity was and is a political choice of the tory govt. To make people poorer.

Having the benefits of membership of the largest trading block in the world is an EU responsibility, making member states incl UK better off.

AtmosClock · 02/08/2019 12:19

@pensionista

Why do you think what we have isn’t a compromise?

Doubleraspberry · 02/08/2019 12:20

Double, the average MP has never lived even slightly like the average person. They are protected from the results of their imposed decisions. To represent a person means to do their bidding, not scoff and hand down their noble thought on the matter.

MPs are more varied than you suggest, although not as much as they should be, I agree with you on that.

But they don’t and never have done their constituent’s ‘bidding’. They are elected on a party manifesto. All MPs represent many people who didn't vote for them and don’t agree with that manifesto. The role of an MP in our democracy is to support the party they belong to whilst also seeking to represent the best interests of their constituents. Many MPs have failed at this over the years, and there is a great deal of resentment in many parts of society because of that.

But you can’t demand that MPs do their constituents’ ‘bidding’ because what is that? Most MPs represent about as many or more people who voted to Remain as voted to Leave. What about their bidding? There are MPs whose constituents voted by large majorities to Remain whose MPs have voted for hard Brexit. Are those MPs allowed to do their constituents’ bidding?

You really cannot reduce this whole situation down to such simplistic ideas.

KidLorneRoll · 02/08/2019 12:21

"If we revoked Article 50 now how do you think the EU would respond. They already think they can bully us into taking their terms."

I really wish people would actually bother to educate themselves.

The WA agreement was drafted the way it was because of the UK's red lines.

The UK came up with the backstop, not the EU.

The EU have twice granted us extensions to sort this mess out and have been clear all along what leaving the EU would mean.

If anything, we are lucky they haven't just told us to fuck off. If we revoked A50 we would stay in the EU as we are now, enjoying all the benefits membership brings and that would be that.

MrPan · 02/08/2019 12:24

The EU have provided numerous opportunities and reminders that revoking is possible and advantageous to us all.
We did not have a clue what the detailed consequences were of invoking. We should revoke and apologise for wasting everyone's time.

jasjas1973 · 02/08/2019 12:28

Pensionista

So we uphold a vote that may be extremely damaging to the country, both economically and politically?

Do you carry on with decisions in your personal life that you discover will be bad for you or do you think again before carrying them out?

Ofc no one can be sure, much like most decisions in life, you go on the best evidence and expert opinion but if there were a crystal ball and it showed that 500 people would be killed in riots, a return to the "troubles" & and a depression, would you still want to leave?

When it comes to the nation, we should proceed with caution, Cameron was wrong to have the vote and doubly wrong to say the result would be upheld come what may, that is not in his gift.

BoneyBackJefferson · 02/08/2019 12:29

MrPan

The problem with revoking is that there is no mandate to do so. Yes in the same way that there is no mandate for no deal or any deal.

Unfortunately, the powers that be are unlikely to revoke or even give us the chance to give them a mandate to revoke.

Pensionista · 02/08/2019 12:30

KidLorneRoll
I hope your patronising remark was because you want the best for the UK and not aimed at me personally.
Are we supposed to be grateful to the EU for granting us extensions. Are you that nieve to think they were doing it out of the goodness of their heart. Ha ha. They need a deal as much as us or to use your tone, didn't you know that.

AgileLass · 02/08/2019 12:33

All those who are saying they’d vote leave gain or opt for no deal: how do you propose to deal with the Irish border and the catastrophic impact on Northern Ireland of no deal?

AgileLass · 02/08/2019 12:33

*again

Pensionista · 02/08/2019 12:34

JasJas 1973.....I disagree with everything you said apart from your last paragraph. See my original post. Can't be bothered to bang my head against a brick wall

jasjas1973 · 02/08/2019 12:34

To represent a person means to do their bidding, not scoff and hand down their noble thought on the matter

Don't be stupid, you obviously haven't a clue what a representative democracy means.

MPs and Govt's have access to information and to civil servants that know far more than we do, its also their job, they ve the time and inclination.
We vote them in based on their advertised range of beliefs and their manifesto pledges.

If the screw up, we vote in the otherside 4 or 5 years later or if your T.May and don't like the result... 2 years later.

CoteDAzur · 02/08/2019 12:35

"They already think they can bully us into taking their terms."

Which terms do you object to, then? What exactly are those terms EU is "bullying" UK to accept?

From what I read, BoJo refuses the deal already agreed upon because of the NI backstop, which EU insists on.

Do you want to see Westminster refuse to honor the GFA?

timeforakinderworld · 02/08/2019 12:37

Pensionista - but that's not now democracy works. If it had been an official referendum it would have been voided due to interference/breaking electoral rules. Also if it were democratic all British citizens would have had a vote. This is not democracy.

timeforakinderworld · 02/08/2019 12:38

Also I can't see the EU bullying anyone. Our failure to negotiate a deal is entirely our fault.

KidLorneRoll · 02/08/2019 12:39

Pensionista: here's another question for you to ignore:

Why do the EU need a deal as much as we do? Explain that to me if you can.

And yes, I will patronise people who clearly have no fucking idea what they are talking about and are the reason we are in this mess. Sorrynotsorry.

timeforakinderworld · 02/08/2019 12:40

Well Pensionista voted Remain so not really her fault!

jasjas1973 · 02/08/2019 12:40

In regard to not meeting the EU (at Govt level) BJ knows that there were no meetings planned, EU and UK on hols!

But officials are still in contact, it just makes him look hard-core to grandstand.

timeforakinderworld · 02/08/2019 12:41

Pensionista - I am curious if you are at all worried about your personal situation now it looks like a no deal. You seem very sanguine about it.

MrPan · 02/08/2019 12:46

Again leavers clueless when asked questions of any detail which can't be answered beyond Tinkerbell's "just wish harder".

Reflects the actual situation in Cabinet currently.

TheTitOfTheIceberg · 02/08/2019 12:50

Remain then, remain now, remain forever. Brexit is the biggest act of national self-harm since...well, probably forever. It's fucking up the GFA, it's trashing the economy and it's the ordinary people at the bottom who were lied to and misled who will feel the biggest pinch while the likes of BoJo and Rees Mogg turn the country into the make-me-even-richer tax haven they desire. Far from being brave little Britain striking out, we'll become Trump's lapdog. The NHS will be sold off lock stock and barrel to court US trade interests and we'll lose the employment protections we benefit from within the EU, since the Tories have made no secret of the fact they want to remove them (just read Britannia Unchained - co-written by members of Boris's new Cabinet - if you don't believe me).

Doubleraspberry · 02/08/2019 12:51

To be fair, there are EU member states who will really feel an impact if there’s No Deal, Ireland of course being the biggest issue but others will experience problems. Extending the deadline to try to get a deal is part of trying to avoid that, and Varadkar has made it abundantly clear that he continues to push them to extend. So this is a mutual issue, although across all the states, the EU suffers far less than the UK.