To ask leavers if they would vote differently now it's looking like no deal?

[TheoriginalLEM]

And as such should we go for another referendum?

I voted to remain and would continue to do so even if a deal was possible. However it is apparent that a deal isn't going to happen. Was it ever really going to be possible?

Would that change the mind of leavers? Or even remainers?

I would prefer to see no deal (even though I know its shit) than for this car crash to continue in slow motion any further.

It’s not the case that there could never have been a deal. A deal was extremely challenging but it’s not the case that the EU wouldn’t have done it.

1. It was made clear to us that no deal could be discussed before triggering Article 50. There was no time limit by which we had to do that. We could have spent proper time working out what our negotiating position was. The Cabinet wasn’t agreed. Originally May wasn’t going to take it to Parliament, which was a bizarre idea. The sort of indicative votes we had in the chaos of March should have happened years ago, with proper structures. Not until she was reasonably confident she knew what the country would bear should Article 50 have been triggered. Instead the ERG faction forced her to do it too soon. (Meanwhile Corbyn had suggested doing it the day after the referendum.)

1. Neither Conservatives or Labour had a clear policy on what the deal should look like.

1. A second referendum on the nature of Brexit would actually have been very useful. Not a sneaky remainer tool but something to guide the way we left.

1. The UK’s position had to be realistic. It’s not all about our ‘red lines’. The EU also has red lines. Demanding everything and ceding nothing isn’t a serious negotiation. It’s a toddler tantrum.

1. The rhetoric, from the referendum campaign onwards, about how easy the deal would be was entirely fallacious. The EU were not blockers to what might have been a week of discussion. This was a complicated, significant and challenging negotiation.

1. Had the UK turned up on day one of negotiations with an agreed, achievable position, serious well-briefed politicians, and a supportive parliament, we’d have agreed a deal.

Spot the difference.

@scaryteacher shortages of ice cubes are not a Brexit problem but shit not being in tbe supermarkets is. And a No Deal will make it a reality.

Yep no detail at all. Of course nations will.trade. but with us as a smaller nation than being part of the world's biggest trading bloc. The U.S. will cherry pick our best spots. The falling £ helps that.
But that's part of the chaos deal from investors. Make Mogg Farage Johnson etc much richer at the public's cost. You've got to be diberately looking the other way to not see it.

Its ALWAYS been about money and a sharp shift to the un democratic right wing just sold as sovereignty and control of borders......and large numbers of people fell.for it and voted to impoverish themselves and their children.

To answer the op question. I'd still vote leave

Leavers please tell me what are the economic and social benefits from leaving the EU and do they outweigh the costs?

Um nope. Why should people have to list their own reasons for voting how they did, just so you can argue against them and try to belittle someone. Believe it or not people are entitled to vote how they want to even if it pisses others off.

@cushioncovers maybe people want something to positive to focus on? Maybe they don't know of any positives so are hoping someone will point them out? No leaver is willing or able to give any positives though so you have to wonder if there are any.

Apricotjamsndwich

You miss understand in that I haven't said that Germany wants a country called Europe. I said that it is our percentage vote + theirs (and some smaller countries) that stops a lot of policies from going through.

But here is the thing we can remove ourselves politically yet still remain a trading partner within the EU.

This is now all immaterial as the two sides (UK) have become far to polarised and seem intent on creating damage than damage control.

The Tory politicians dealing with Brexit have behaved like clueless arrogant children. It's been three years of international embarrassment.
I'm completely baffled how anyone is managing to blame the EU for any of this yet here we are.
No logic, just some sort of jingoistic tabloid fueled desire to have an enemy.
At heart, Brexiteers think that they as British/English people are better than everyone else and how dare the EU or Ireland not fall into line?
Well the empire is long gone. Reality is going to bite very hard in 90 days.

So you see why remainers get so pissed off with leavers who voted to make us all.poorer but can't say why other than a childish slogan or claims about the EU that are either speculative or something they heard a Brexit politician say. Veracity doesn't matter it appears, as there is a utter absence of critical thinking.

Bercows. You're right they aren't many positives because the shit show that is government gave us the vote but were and still are woefully unprepared to see it through. I voted leave. But even I'm sick to death of the monumental fuck up it's become. And as for Cameron the coward resigning a few days later when the go didn't go his way. 🤬🤬

maybe people want something to positive to focus on?

You're just not seeing the opportunities Bercows

We can focus on all the BMWs and Mercedes we buy in the UK, they form such a huge proportion of European trade, that the manufacturers will compel the EU to disregard all its existing principles to favour the UK with a huge deal catering to all our demands. Especially when they see that over 90% of the population are fervent supporters of No Deal Crash Out Brexit.

And we can focus on the imminent collapse of the entire malevolent behemoth of the EUSSR when all the other members see how the UK soars and prospers independently, they'll all follow our lead to become equally free and agile atoms of autonomy.

"equally free and agile atoms of autonomy"

Apologies Boney thanks for that clarification and I think one way forward and a sensible compromise would have been to withdraw politically but still have similar the trade and customs agreements.

cushion no one has to do anything but what makes you think I want to belittle anyone? I'm sorry if I've said anything to make you think that - I want to understand, I'm willing to learn and I do feel very gloomy about all this and would like to hear something positive.

Nope, still LEAVE for me.

And NO new referendum.

And NO new referendum.

Why not? If you're so sure Leave is the right thing to do, what are you afraid of?

We vote every 5 years (sometimes less) in a GE because opinions and thoughts change.

It's been 3 years since the original referendum, so it's reasonable to expect a shift in opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I just want Scotland out of this shitshow ASAP now.

But I'm always amused by the shouty ones saying no new referendum.

They're usually the same ones screeching that a new vote is undemocratic.

Which is very, very funny given that voting is the cornerstone of democracy.

If we leave without a deal it's not over, so let's drop that fallacy.
It's like coming to the end of a fixed rate mortgage; at the end of the fixed rate we move onto the far more expensive variable rate and we still need to arrange another mortgage, even though the bank is saying we can stay on the cheaper rate if we want to to save money and oh, if we do leave our mortgage it will be broken up into 50 far more complicated mortgages with shit terms that will cost us far more money than the current fixed rate.

But yeah, 'control'.

Bet you wouldn't be crying for a new referendum if the result had been REMAIN.

Stop complaining. We're leaving. Deal with it.

@cushioncovers

Um nope. Why should people have to list their own reasons for voting how they did, just so you can argue against them and try to belittle someone. Believe it or not people are entitled to vote how they want to even if it pisses others off.

Yeah this. The Remainers are relentless whingers aren't they? No matter WHAT anyone says, they will still argue. They will argue Monday is Tuesday, the sun is black, and the moon is made of cheese. Even if you proved 100% that they were wrong.

I find them sometimes infuriating, sometimes hilariously funny.

But they ALWAYS entertain me.

Do you often prove a Remain argument 100% wrong?

"Bet you wouldn't be crying for a new referendum if the result had been REMAIN."

Oh really? Remind us who said this:

"In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way."

"Deal with it"

Yeah, people should just get over losing their jobs, losing their rights and losing their reliable source of medication. What utter bastards we are for being concerned about all the problems with brexit when we have such a great, cast iron list of all the positives it will bring.

I'm afraid blue fits the worst of the leaver stereo type. Just it worth it.

Bet you wouldn't be crying for a new referendum if the result had been REMAIN.

I'm neither crying, nor demanding a new referendum. No Deal actually suits my agenda because it virtually guarantees independence.

Your tone is predictable though, you voted for unicorns and are determined they're still winging their way to you, even in the event of the government having to make an emergency plan to ensure food and medication shortages are mitigated post Brexit.

Stop complaining. We're leaving. Deal with it

So as I said, Scotland has another option. As does NI. However, if I were an English or Welsh remain voter, I'd be feeling pretty murderous towards stereotypical arrogance, insults and childishness towards the leave voters who put me in this position then clearly demonstrate they haven't a fucking clue about reality.

So aye, I can see exactly why English and Welsh remain voters are so fucking angry, they've every right to be.

Job losses, medication shortages, food prices skyrocketing and life getting harder.

Caused by fucking idiots who can only communicate in caps lock and sound bites because heaven forbid they have a thought to call their own!

From the leave voters, not towards.